I'll ignore your rant about the stats - but add that these numbers are probably generated by some pretty sophisticated 3rd part software that the BBC employs. I highly doubt they just look for "Linux" in the UA string. I'm sure Jem will be replying.
> the site is target at Windows users Completely incorrect. We target certain browsers when testing, sure, but why would we ever target the OS? > bbc.co.uk uses ActiveX Where? > On the subject of whether to support IE 5, is it supported by Microsoft or has it been end of lifed? If it's been end of lifed then maybe you don't need to support it. I'd argue that it doesn't matter if MS support it or not. Choices of browser support should be based on if the users are using it. > Why do you need to 'support' specific browsers anyway? This is what standards are ofr, I don't need to check the compatibility with every piece of software on every switch between here and my destination node, they are using a standard I just make sure I follow that standard. Why should the HTML content be any different? I suspect you already know this, and perhaps your question is rhetorical. I'll answer it anyhow :-). Some browsers had different interpretations of the standards and render pages radically differently from each other. Testing to the standards is pointless, and will result in thousands of emails asking why IE, and it's box model, has messed up the pretty design. J -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Sent: 27 March 2007 17:19 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Browser Stats On 26/03/07, Jeremy Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 0.4% of users at the time used a Linux operating system ;) That's not entirely true is it? Please do not try to mislead people. What is more likely is: 0.4% of users WHERE DETECTED AS using a Linux operating system AT THE TIME THEY VISITED THE BBC SITE. This number can be wrong for a multitude of reasons. 1) the BBC stats are biased, the site is target at Windows users and on certain pages blocks users of other OSes (bbc.co.uk uses ActiveX for instance) 2) Detection software may not have been as tuned to recognize a Linux OS, after all many distros don't call them selves 'Linux', it may not be in the user agent string. (simply looking for the word Linux is not good enough). 3) A Linux user may have been misreporting the Operating System (commonly used to cater for sites that do user agent sniffing badly, also used to blend in with the crowd for anonymity). 4) Someone may have a dual boot (or triple or more), and may only be using Windows to view bbc.co.ku, possibly due to being locked out by previously mentioned technological practices of the BBC. 5) Some 'users' may not be real people, they may be robots spoofing there user agent. 90% of email is spam. How have you accounted for web robots browsing your site looking for email addresses or trying to post spam comments (they would not hit robots.txt or say robot in the user agent, that would give them away)? I am thinking most spam bots would impersonate IE on Windows as it probably has the highest market share so much harder o filter. (by how high we are unsure). Additionally you could argue you would get the less knowledgable users in this sampling, I rarely hit the BBC home page, why bother? I know where I want to go and I get the news feeds in a handy RSS so I probably don't hit news.bbc.co.uk's homepage either. I have the pages I need on bookmarks, (Favourites for you IE users). This is the great thing about statistics people like you claim they show something and try to cover up the failings of how the sampling was done. It shows only as much as it records. The number of recognized User Agent strings for hits on the BBC website. (Quick question, is this per IP or per page hit? page hit would be bad as it would allow robots to skew the results badly as they would hit far more pages). I really do dislike statistics, especially when people try to claim that they prove something without accounting for the method of gathering. And now a quote: > There are three kinds of commonly recognised untruths: > > Lies, damn lies and statistics. > - Mark Twain > > This quote from Mark Twain is accurate; statistics are often used to > lie to the public because most people do not understand how statistics work. And this quote is from where you ask? Why it is from the BBC of course! (well I had to use the BBC quote didn't I? especially it is the first result on Google for: lies damn lies statistics) Maybe you should improve your stats? 1.Group each unique header together and have a Skilled Human with knowledge of all operating system classify them according to OS. 2. Make each visitor pass a Turing Test prior to using there User Agent. 3. Verify details of OS using other methods, i.e. Javascript could check, or use OS fingerprinting (hopefully it wouldn't hit NAT routers, otherwise you'd probably get the OS of a router,. which although interesting is not what we are looking for is it?). On the subject of whether to support IE 5, is it supported by Microsoft or has it been end of lifed? If it's been end of lifed then maybe you don't need to support it. Why do you need to 'support' specific browsers anyway? This is what standards are ofr, I don't need to check the compatibility with every piece of software on every switch between here and my destination node, they are using a standard I just make sure I follow that standard. Why should the HTML content be any different? The underlying TCP/IP and HTTP system seem to work much more compatibly than all these websites, many of which display poorly if you stray so slightly of the most common browser and settings, does this not show that standards work better? Andy -- First they ignore you then they laugh at you then they fight you then you win. - Mohandas Gandhi - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
