On 7/15/06, Tim Nolan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Gilberto,
>I think certain omissions are definitely the moral equivalent of lying.
>In the Bahai case we are talking about Bahai preacher not telling their > audience that they were a different religion.
I don't know the facts about Jamal Effendi, so I cannot comment on that.
http://www.breacais.demon.co.uk/abs/bsr09/9B2a_momen_jamal.htm We do not have a precise description of the teaching methods of Jamál Effendi but we can put together a picture from the evidence to hand. Among the pieces of evidence that we have are the following: 1. Jamál Effendi's appearance: we know that Jamál Effendi dressed in the attire of a Muslim holy man, more specifically that of a Sufi shaykh of the Mawlaví Sufi order (the Mawlaví or Mevlevi Order of Sufís follow the very influential Iranian mystic of the 13th century, Jalálu'd-Dín Rúmí). In a traditional society such as that of Muslim India, a person's appearance classifies that person: you are as you appear. Thus, if Jamál Effendi appeared as a Sufi shaykh, then he was a Sufi shaykh to everyone around him. 2. Jamál Effendi's name: Jamál Effendi was known by such names as Jamálu'd-Dín Sháh[66] or Darvísh Jamalu'd-Dín Bábí.[67] The designation "Sháh" is a title typically taken by Sufi shaykhs. 3. Events in Mandalay: 'Azízu'lláh Sulaymání records the following information on the authority of Mafúal-aqq 'Ilmí, one of the prominent Bahá'ís of India, who in turn learned this from Khalífa Muhammad Yúnis of Mandalay. In the town of Mandalay alone, Jamál Effendi had made some six thousand people followers of Bahá'u'lláh. In accordance with the exigencies of prudence (hikmat), however, he had not told them that this meant a new religious dispensation (a new Sharí`ah). They were under the impression that they were still under the Islamic dispensation. In the time of 'Abdu'l-Bahá, Mírzá Malram came to Mandalay and endeavoured to guide them to the fact that a new religious dispensation had arisen. Some four thousand of these persons were extremely dismayed and turned upon Mírzá Malram and attacked him – he was only saved by the speedy arrival of the British police. Some two thousand, however, remained Bahá'ís.
However, even if a Baha'i person did something that was not straightforward, or was dishonest, that would reflect on him or her, not on the Baha'i Faith.
If we were talking about Bahais who cheat on their income taxes I would agree with you 100%. But there are multiple examples of encouraging a certain amount of ambiguity when it comes to religious identity based on Bahai texts and teachings. (e.g. taqiyah or hikmat)
>But there are also a number of situations where a member of a different faith >would take a more "activist" or uncompromising approach where a Bahai >would strive to fit in and obey.
The Baha'i teachings emphasize that the purpose of religion is unity and harmony, that contention is forbidden. According to the Baha'i writings, the way to teach the Baha'i Faith is though friendliness and humility, not by "in your face" confrontation. Another principle is that Baha'is should present the Faith as if giving a gift; if the other person refuses it, the Baha'i should let him follow his own path.
I think that's fine. I think a lot of religious communities could come to a broad agreement that certain values: love, compassion, peace, unity, truth, life, etc. are important and ought to be promoted. But the difference betweeen religions is in what decisions they endorse when two good things seem to conflict. Unity as a value is very very very important in the Bahai faith. So if there is a situation where candor and forthrightness are in conflict with unity, a Bahai might be more likely than the next person to choose unity.
In general, in the United States, many people are not ready to accept some fundamental Baha'i principles, such as obedience and submissiveness to God's laws.
Do you mean, accept in the sense of believing in those principles and becoming Bahais?
If I were to initiate discussion on this topic, right at the start of a relationship, some people might put up mental walls, since they don't want to hear about this. If someone asked me a direct question, I hope I would give a direct, honest answer.
For me personally, the "slickness" in the Bahai faith when it comes to explaining the religious beliefs is something which encourages me to put up mental walls.
But I might not bring up a challenging matter right at the beginning of a relationship.
If it is truly a matter of being silent about a certain aspect and waiting beofre bringing it up at all, but one is specifically creating a misleading impression that's different. For example, Jamal Effendi specifically gave the impression of being a Sufi from a particular Sufi order. It would be as if a Bahai man or women went to a mostly Catholic country and they carried rosaries, and were dressed like a priest or a nun. Even if they didn't go around saying "I'm Catholic" you have to admit there is some amount of dishonesty there.
Here is an example. The Baha'i teachings say that homosexual relatioships are immoral and are not allowed for Baha'is. I live in a small city that has a large (several hundred) and very vocal homosexual community. If I were just beginning to talk about the Baha'i Faith with someone, I would not bring up the Baha'i teachings on homosexual relations, at the beginning. If the other person asked me a direct question, I would feel obliged to say that the Baha'i Faith regards homosexual relations as immoral and forbidden to Baha'is. But I see no reason to begin a conversation with that.
Yes, that's not the kind of behavior I had in mind. Peace GIlberto The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu