The Baha'i Studies Listserv On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 5:14 PM, Gilberto Simpson < gilberto.simp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The Baha'i Studies Listserv > On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Iskandar Hai, M.D. > <iskandar....@gmail.com> wrote: > > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > > > > It's one thing to say that Prophets have similarities and have > differences. > > But, it's quite another thing to quote a hadith that purportedly says > > Muhammad was given things (was it six things?) that other Prophets lacked > > and then when you do actually analyze those six things, they are rather > > bogus. > > If all you can say is that I'm "bogus" and aren't giving an actual > reason, then I'm going to let this drop. Feel free to believe what you > like on that point. I don't care. But EVEN IF that one hadith is > "bogus" there are still over a dozen which using different phrasing > and different phrasing say that Muhammad (saaws) is the last prophet. > The argument doesn't just depend on the poetic meaning of the word > "seal" or the validity of one or two hadith. Since you seem to reject > the hadith as a whole anyway, I don't expect you to believe it. But > I'm also okay with that. > ------ I don't have time to go over all the ahadith that you had quoted but if you read them very carefully, and if you are unbiased, you will see that some or most of them have problems. I don't say you are bogus. I'm saying the hadith is bogus. But then you become so conveniently selective in picking and choosing your ahadith that it becomes ludicrous. Who are you? Are you a Muslim hadith scholar and theologian or something? > > > You also fail to see the self definition of the Baha'i Faith as a new > Divine > > Revelation, as a new religion and you talks about saints, and awliyAA, > and > > reformers, etc. Baha'u'llah is none of those. He is the Founder and > Author > > of a new Divinely ordained religion/Revelation. This is self definition. > You > > don't address that. > > Initially I was responding to someone who said that the Bahai view > since (in his opinion) it didn't allow for religion to be renewed. And > so I mentioned those figures because they provide a way for religion > to be renewed. Of course that would happen in a different way than the > Bahai faith advocates because we are talking about two different > religions. What is your point? > > But also, if you really look at what the Sufis are claiming when they > say that a saint is an insan al-kamil or the qutb of the age it isn't > small potatos. They don't just mean he or she is a boy scout If you > really look into the issue, they are basically saying that the person > is like a Manifestation in the Bahai sense, a powerful perfect > polished mirror, capable of receiving kashf (unveiling) and ilham > (inspiration). > ------ They still seld describe themselves as Muslims. None of them have ever dared to change one iota of Islamic shari`ah law. Baha'u'llah abrogated laws of past Dispensations by Divine authority. That's the difference. > > > Khazeh's paper and Moojan's paper address many many issues from a variety > of > > angles and perspectives. You don't address or engage them. Or, you just > > can't. > > Because I've read the paper and thought about it before and discussed > different parts of it on this list before. > ------- No, you have not. You cannot. > > > By they way, how on earth did Moses spoke directly with God? Did God > speak > > with Moses in Hebrew or in Arabic, or what? How can God speak, anyhow? > How > > does God communicate with other Prophets? Via SMS text messaging? > > To get into the detailed theological issues would be controversial. > There are technical differences between Muslims (Mutazilites, Asharis, > Maturidis) on the nature of God's speech and I'm not sure what the > technical Bahai position (I'd guess Mutazilite, but I really don't > know for sure). But in terms of broad textual support, the Quran, the > Bab, Bahaullah, and Shoghi Effendi ALL refered to Moses with the title > "he who conversed/discoursed with God". > > ------------ "he who conversed/discoursed with God" is just a title. You made it sound like it's really a difference. Prophets all speak with God. __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-547777-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
