Rob,
i see my reply to you, never arrived, perhaps you read it, and you
will understand that the question of choosing to which list you send
a message is not so evident. My message was automatically destroyed,
not I hasten to say because of any questionable content, but because
I put a few photos of messages to show that many messages about
Baroque questions, including the recent one about "nails and Weiss"
do get sent to LUTE.
LUTE is the neutral choice, while BAROQUE takes a decision.
My question below, was rhetorical, of course, I know, as you do,
that there is no such thing, as an "ideal" lute (notice the
"guillemets", in my original message). However, I have been trying to
find out, not THE answer, but answers to that question, for some
years, as Martin could tell you, when I helped him send a message
about this to the French list . It is true, I am in the process of
ordering a lute, but that does not alter my questioning. It is a
chance to look at it in more acuity.
I happen to be a phonetician, and acoustics, and resonators, are our
stock in trade. This inclines me to ask such questions. I am rather
surprised, in fact, that few lutists seem to do so.
Indeed, I was quite positively surprised to see you mentioning
specifically, this question of resonance, open strings and the type
of tuning, in favour of Bologna lutes (a little in the same direction
as Burwell, although, she doesn't actually make the relation with the
music). Indeed, I quoted you on that point to Stephen who seemed
basically to be in agreement with you.
I do not want to begin discussing the question right now, but, I do
notice that when Hoppy made recordings on LP, his reasons supported
by Musicologists for choosing a particular lute-type for specific
composers of French Baroque music, were purely iconographic, with no
reference what so ever to the type of music. I regret, that at
present, not only do lutists not explain why they choose a particular
lute for a type, of music; you are lucky if they mention the maker of
the lute, and certainly it is rare to see any discussion of string type.
Actually, my decision was already made, a few days ago; but that will
not stop me continuing asking such a question. I have found strings
that work well on my Renaissance lute (though constant questioning
and researching, mainly on the web, but also by mail), this does not
prevent me from continuing to be interested in the question of string
choice. I hope it does not mean I am not relaxed, although an
attitude of research rarely goes together with complete relaxation.
I am not of course criticizing the qualities of Burwell, when data is
rare, how can we. However, what is said is quite sketchy, two pages
on the topic, and yet it is massively quoted. How can it be
otherwise, but I can't help feeling this is very similar to the
question raised by the Cahiers 7 and Joel Dugot, on the conclusions
we can draw about lutes of earlier periods, from those few that
happen to exist in museums at present.
We do have to rely on them, in fact, what else can we do (that and
iconography), but there is often a tendency to use this small
quantity of data to support our need for standardization (see the 8c
lute question for this tendence).
As you say, we can learn from our students, but only I think, if we
remain permanent students ourselves (I stopped carrying a student
card at the age of 46), but I am still on a permanent quest for
understanding.
You can't switch off your research attitude, just because you have
retired (as I have done, I mean retire). I hope that raising
questions will never be confused with putting in question and lack of
trust.
I have often been told by lutists that certain subjects should be
left to lutemakers (I don't want to know what is inside, told me one
fellow). Personally, I am really intrigued, by seeing the inside of
a lute, and I find those photos on of the J-barring on your site
extremely interesting. Even for string choice, I have been told, why
don't you just trust your lute maker. I am ready to trust, but like
the young child, I will continue to ask questions. I am really
interested.
I know how little I know in this area, and because of this, I rarely
make statements, unless I feel sure I can back them up; but I have
learnt that it is not finding the answers that makes a good student,
it is asking the questions,
preferably the right questions, but failing that just questions,
something may come out of it.
Enjoy your lute
regards
Anthony
Le 12 déc. 07 à 21:48, Rob a écrit :
Anthony Hind said:
I am trying to make a question about what the "ideal" French
Baroque
lute might be. <<<
Well, there probably never was or will be such a thing. I imagine most
players had a few instruments by different makers, just as today,
even if
they were all of a kind, 11 courses. And they probably wrote and
played
differently on each one. I think you will be chasing your own tail
for years
to come, Anthony, if you look for the one ideal lute. But you know
all this.
So, is there a question? I would suggest honing-in on exactly the
repertoire
you want to play - write down an imaginary CD or concert programme.
Then ask
yourself why you want to play these particular pieces. Do they have
something in common? What is it you hear, and what is it you are
looking
for? Are they the same thing?
We also probably give too much importance to the very few texts
that
talk about this from the period. I am wondering whether taking
Burwell too literally would not be like taking one of my students
notes, or even my notes for my students, too seriously.
AH<<<
Well, Mary Burwell seems to me to be a fairly advanced player and an
intelligent, thoughtful student. I would be happy to have such
students! And
what teacher can't learn from his best students? A poor teacher, I
imagine.
Another point to take on board is that no two players sound the
same on the
same instrument. You have to find the ideal not within the
instrument, but
within yourself. Well, at least make an attempt to find it. Those
players
who make a great sound do so on any old cricket bat!
Oh, and trust your luthier - Stephen Gottlieb is one of the best,
so relax.
:-)
Rob
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