Don't the Vivaldi concertos call for muted strings also? Oh, here it
is.
The Trio/Concerto in d minor for viola d'amore, lute, strings and
cembalo (RV 540).
Malipiero's edition leaves out the lute in the tuttis--it is to play
continuo "col
basso" and the viola, "col violini."
I'd be very interested in knowing about any other ensemble lute music
that calls for muted strings.
As for finding all the parts for the Radolt concertos, the easiest way
is to
consult some of the "Finding Tools," in this case
International Inventory of Musical Sources;
Re'pertoire international des sources musicales [RISM]
Serie A1, Einzeldrucke vor 1800. Kassel. 12 vols.
Alphabetical listing of music prints devoted to music
by a single composer. Includes library holdings.
It was the first violin part that was a problem. Libraries in Vienna
(2), Munich, and London have incomplete sets of parts. The SOLE
surviving first violin part (acc. to RISM in 1970) is in Brno. Of
course, you'd probably want to search to see if there is a modern
edition or facsimile. For that purpose, the World Catalogue would be a
handy place to look. See the link below.
There is a short list of important finding tools for lutenists on Wayne
Cripps's page.
[1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute/Sources.html
I need to add the RISM citations.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephan Olbertz" <[2]stephan.olbe...@web.de>
To: <[3]baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 4:51 AM
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Wenzel von Radolt
> Yes, Chris and all,
>
> don't know what I "remembered". 5 Hagen-Trios with sordini, one
without,
> and the two duets also without sordini.
>
> No sordinis in the Martino-print, Falckenhagen probably also, but I'm
> missing the first page of the parts.
>
> Baron also not, according to Burger's edition.
>
> Of the rest (Lauffensteiner etc.) I have only Fronimo-files, could be
that
> there is a sordino hidden in some manuscript parts.
>
> Then there's a portion of Kohaut and one Vivaldi, as Dale and Roman
> mentioned.
>
> The "new" Weiss with collaparte Violin and Cello is without sordini,
as
> probably is the rest of the early trios. Well, after all it was more
of an
> amplification than a composition.
>
> Anyway, I think if you can play with a oboe (Falckenhagen, Baron) you
can
> also play with a undamped violin. A baroque-violin player I know can
> indeed play very softly if it's required, and happily.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Stephan
>
> Am 09.11.2010, 06:45 Uhr, schrieb Christopher Wilke
> <[4]chriswi...@yahoo.com>:
>
>> I think with one exception, all of Hagen's Sonatas for Lute, Violin
and
>> Basso call for muted violin.
>>
>> Also the Kohaut D major Divertimento. This one has no violin part,
only
>> a muted viola with cello. It seems strange to me to mute the viola.
>> I've heard it in combination with modern guitar and it seems a
pretty
>> good match, even senza sordino. (A better partner for guitar than
>> violin.) Then again, while I've worked with violas in orchestral
>> settings, I've never played with a viola soloist. Perhaps with gut
>> strings on a historical instrument, there is some roughness of tone
that
>> the mute would help smooth out?
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> Christopher Wilke
>> Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
>> [5]www.christopherwilke.com
>>
>>
>> --- On Mon, 11/8/10, Dale Young <[6]dyoung5...@wowway.com> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Dale Young <[7]dyoung5...@wowway.com>
>>> Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Wenzel von Radolt
>>> To: [8]baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu, "Stephan Olbertz"
>>> <[9]stephan.olbe...@web.de>
>>> Date: Monday, November 8, 2010, 9:43 PM
>>> Kohaut requested sordini for middle
>>> movements and the entire Divertimento in
>>> Bb, one of two printed examples of lute ensembles with
>>> violin. ( I can't
>>> remember if Ph. Martino suggested sordini or not for his
>>> fiddle trios) Many
>>> have suggested that violins were quieter and/or players
>>> were accustomed to
>>> quieter playing before the wholesale adoption of the east
>>> european/klesmer/gypsy/ schmaltz school of VIOLIN PLAYING.
>>> Oy. (Or
>>> Paganininininini.) The sordini were more a
>>> change of timbre than a volume
>>> control (i think).
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Stephan Olbertz" <[10]stephan.olbe...@web.de>
>>> To: <[11]baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>>> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 4:31 PM
>>> Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Wenzel von Radolt
>>>
>>>
>>> > Am 08.11.2010, 15:05 Uhr, schrieb Christopher Wilke
>>> > <[12]chriswi...@yahoo.com>:
>>> >
>>> >> It was, however, also common practice for the
>>> bowed strings to use mutes
>>> >> when playing with lutes
>>> >
>>> > Interesting. I only know the Hagen Duet for Violin and
>>> Lute with obligato
>>> > mute, what else do we have?
>>> >
>>> > Regards, Stephan
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > and I think this recording
>>> >> would have benefited from doing so. Gunar
>>> Letzbor mentions that playing
>>> >> with lutes was a new experience for the group, so
>>> my hats off to them
>>> >> for tackling this music in the first place and
>>> doing such a good job of
>>> >> it.
>>> >>
>>> >> Chris
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>> The liner notes reveal some interesting
>>> facts...
>>> >>> apparently, the
>>> >>> parts were scattered in various areas, making
>>> great
>>> >>> difficulty in
>>> >>> assembling the concertos. All parts were then
>>> >>> together, with the
>>> >>> exception of the first violin part in the
>>> concertos.
>>> >>> One of the
>>> >>> lutenists in the project, Hubert Hoffman,
>>> started writing
>>> >>> the missing
>>> >>> violin parts, and after near completion of the
>>> work,
>>> >>> somebody found
>>> >>> it the missing part!! Yesterday I had a
>>> conversation
>>> >>> with an old
>>> >>> friend, Doug Towne. In discussing this, he
>>> laughed,
>>> >>> stating, "They
>>> >>> should have asked me... I've had it since the
>>> late 70's".
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The lutenists involved in the recording are
>>> Hubert Hoffman,
>>> >>> Sven
>>> >>> Schwannberger, and Klaus Kob. I have never
>>> heard of
>>> >>> any of these
>>> >>> performers, but they certainly performed these
>>> works well.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> ed
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> At 08:41 AM 11/7/2010, Christopher Wilke
>>> wrote:
>>> >>> >Bernd,
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Thanks for the link. And
>>> >>> thanks very much to Martyn for
>>> >>> > writing the article. Very interesting
>>> and
>>> >>> informative stuff. I
>>> >>> > wonder why Radolt has received so little
>>> attention.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > On one point, though, I can't
>>> >>> agree with Martyn: von Radolt's
>>> >>> > music is not of "negligible musical
>>> worth." I
>>> >>> won't argue that it
>>> >>> > is the deepest stuff, but it is pleasant
>>> to listen to
>>> >>> and there are
>>> >>> > some surprises to keep you interested.
>>> Overall,
>>> >>> I would recommend
>>> >>> > the recording that Ed mentioned by Ars
>>> Antiqua Austria
>>> >>> although I
>>> >>> > find the violin to be a bit too forward
>>> in the
>>> >>> recorded mix. They
>>> >>> > definitely did not follow Radolt's
>>> explicit
>>> >>> instruction that "the
>>> >>> > soprano part that is the small lute must
>>> at all times
>>> >>> be set
>>> >>> > strongly" and tripled in volume in
>>> relation to the
>>> >>> other parts. (I
>>> >>> > suppose they were after an "overall
>>> composite
>>> >>> sound.")
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Actually, I know very little
>>> >>> about this recording. I bought it
>>> >>> > on iTunes about a year ago and there is
>>> no booklet
>>> >>> (shame on
>>> >>> > them!). I could hear that there was more
>>> than
>>> >>> one lute on there,
>>> >>> > but the performers' names are not even
>>> listed
>>> >>> online. How hard is
>>> >>> > it to include a digital booklet, people?
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >Chris
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >Christopher Wilke
>>> >>> >Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
>>> >>> >www.christopherwilke.com
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >--- On Sun, 11/7/10, Bernd Haegemann
>>> <[13...@symbol4.de>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > > From: Bernd Haegemann <[14...@symbol4.de>
>>> >>> > > Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Wenzel
>>> von Radolt
>>> >>> > > To: [15]baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu,
>>> >>> "Edward Martin"
>>> >>> > <[16...@gamutstrings.com>,
>>> >>> "Martyn Hodgson" <[17]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
>>> >>> > > Date: Sunday, November 7, 2010, 4:40
>>> AM
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > > > See my paper in FoMRHI
>>> >>> Quarterly No
>>> >>> > > 44 July 1986 C-737 : 'Von Radolt's
>>> >>> > > > instructions to lute
>>> >>> players (Wien
>>> >>> > > 1701)'
>>> >>> > > >
>>> >>> > > > This gives a translation of
>>> >>> the
>>> >>> > > instructions and a commentary on
>>> the
>>> >>> > > > lute sizes/pitches
>>> >>> required.
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > > see
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > > [18]http://www.fomrhi.org/uploads/bulletins/Fomrhi-044.pdf
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > > B
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > > To get on or off this list see list
>>> information
>>> >>> at
>>> >>> > > [19]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Edward Martin
>>> >>> 2817 East 2nd Street
>>> >>> Duluth, Minnesota 55812
>>> >>> e-mail: [20...@gamutstrings.com
>>> >>> voice: (218) 728-1202
>>> >>> [21]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name
>>> >>> [22]http://www.myspace.com/edslute
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> To get on or off this list see list information
>>> at
>>> >> [23]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Erstellt mit Operas revolutionaerem E-Mail-Modul:
>>> > [24]http://www.opera.com/mail/
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - [25]www.avg.com
>>> Version: 9.0.864 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3245 - Release
>>> Date: 11/08/10
>>> 14:34:00
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Erstellt mit Operas revolutionaerem E-Mail-Modul:
> [26]http://www.opera.com/mail/
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [27]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute/Sources.html
2. mailto:stephan.olbe...@web.de
3. mailto:baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
4. mailto:chriswi...@yahoo.com
5. http://www.christopherwilke.com/
6. mailto:dyoung5...@wowway.com
7. mailto:dyoung5...@wowway.com
8. mailto:baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
9. mailto:stephan.olbe...@web.de
10. mailto:stephan.olbe...@web.de
11. mailto:baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
12. mailto:chriswi...@yahoo.com
13. mailto:b...@symbol4.de
14. mailto:b...@symbol4.de
15. mailto:baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
16. mailto:e...@gamutstrings.com
17. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
18. http://www.fomrhi.org/uploads/bulletins/Fomrhi-044.pdf
19. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
20. mailto:e...@gamutstrings.com
21. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name
22. http://www.myspace.com/edslute
23. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
24. http://www.opera.com/mail/
25. http://www.avg.com/
26. http://www.opera.com/mail/
27. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
