Dear Mathias,
Interesting. As said, I don't think any reasonably sized lute is
'wrong': it's more a matter of what might have been generally expected
at the particular time.
My comments relate principally to French lute music of the mid/late
17th century (as on Anthony Bailes's CD) so other schools and periods
such as those you mention (Mace and early 17th century French
lutenists) may well have used the size of lute you prefer for this
repertoire; such as the double headed Wolf lute (late 16th century?
original) with stopped strings at 63cm.
One other problem with using the 1722 Wenger instrument for earlier
French repertoire is that the barring in the lower part of the belly
which does not fit the models of that found on early 16th century lutes
so esteemed by the 17th century French (see Lute News).
Martyn
--- On Fri, 16/3/12, Mathias Roesel <mathias.roe...@t-online.de> wrote:
From: Mathias Roesel <mathias.roe...@t-online.de>
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: What lutes for 17th century French music
was: Ne Anthony Bailes CD
To: "baroque-lute mailing-list" <baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Friday, 16 March, 2012, 12:10
> Hi Bill, This is indeed a fascinating subject (hence the change
of
> heading). I am told variously that the 1722 Wenger has a string
length
> of 76 or 77cm. It may at some stage have been converted (from a
> gallichon perhaps?) to a 13 course lute before the present
> manifestation as an 11 course instrument . Again see earlier
editions
> of Lute News for more information/views. The preferred
instruments at
> the time (ie converted early 16th cenury Italian lutes) generally
had
> a string length of 68 +/-2cm. See Lute News 94, page 28 which
outlines
> the principle sources of evidence for the size of lutes preferred
in
> mid/late 17th century France).
I was as foolhardy as to choose the Wolf lute in Fuessen (63 cm) for
not only
Mace, but also Panmure (4, 5, 8), Pierre Gaultier, Dufaut, Bouvier,
Mesangeau et al. The music gets a light and bright touch, and I do like
it
very much. Mace has kinda fixed pitches and possibly mirrors habits of
the
1640ies in French-influenced England.
Mathias
> But bear in mind (as Lute News notes)
> "Of course, this is not to say that it is 'wrong' to play the
music on
> such a large lute and, indeed, the French repertoire whilst being
> challenging for interpretation (precise phrasing, accent,
> articulation, mannerisms and the like), is much less demanding
for the
> left hand and a large instrument is clearly quite possible: it's
more
> a question of what the Old Ones themselves might have expected".
> Incidentally, I make no comment one way or the other on Anthony
> Bailes's performance. regards Martyn PS the CD of music played
on
> this instrument which I reported as being out over a year ago in
fact
> refers to a previous CD played on the same instrument.........
--- On
> Fri, 16/3/12, William Samson <[2][1]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> From: William Samson <[3][2]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk> Subject:
> [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Ne Anthony Bailes CD To: "Martyn Hodgson"
> <[4][3]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>,
"[5][4]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu"
> <[6][5]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>, "Edward Martin"
> <[7][6]e...@gamutstrings.com> Date: Friday, 16 March, 2012, 8:33
Hi
> Martyn, Do you know what the string length of the Wenger is?
> Bill From: Martyn Hodgson
<[1][8][7]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
> To: [2][9][8]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Edward Martin
> <[3][10][9]e...@gamutstrings.com> Sent: Friday, 16 March 2012,
8:08
> Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Ne Anthony Bailes CD Dear
Edward,
> Thank you for this notice: in fact this CD has been out in
Europe
> for over a year. Unfortunately, as Anthony Bailes
later
> agreed (see letters in Lute News from No 94, August
2010
> on), the large Wenger lute used on the recording (if indeed
it
> was built as a lute and not a gallichon - the instruments
for
> which Wenger was best known) is not the most suitable (or
> appropriate) type of instrument for playing the mid/late 17th
> century French repertoire. As you'll know, conversions of early
16th
> century Italian instruments were then the most highly
regarded.
> Indeed, in Lute News 95 Anthony Bailes writes: '......a lute
the
> size of the Wenger should not find acceptance as being
ideal for
> the performance of 17th century French lute music,......'
> regards Martyn --- On Fri, 16/3/12, Edward Martin
> <[1][4][11][10]e...@gamutstrings.com> wrote: From: Edward
Martin
> <[2][5][12][11]e...@gamutstrings.com> Subject:
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Ne
> Anthony Bailes CD To:
[3][6][13][12]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Date: Friday, 16 March, 2012, 2:50 Dear Ones,
For
> those on the list who enjoy well played 11-course French baroque
> lute, there is a new release by Abthony Bailes, on the Ramee
> label. it is entitled, 'Une Douceur violente", and it contains
works
> of Mouton and Gallot. He recorded this program on his
authentic
> lute by Georgi Ferdinand Wenger, Augsburg, 1722. The
catalog
> number is RAM 1104, and it is available in the USA, in
usual
> outlets. This is an announcement, not a review. The
instrument
> is a large one, and the pitch is consequently quite low, at
a70,
> in essence making it in a b-minor tuning. Beautiful sound
and
> playing, highly recommended. ed Edward
Martin
> 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812
> e-mail: [1][4][7][14][13]e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218)
728-1202
>
>
[2][5][8][15][14]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id60298871&ref=nam
e
> [3][6][9][16][15]http://www.myspace.com/edslute
> [4][7][10][17][16]http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin
To get
> on or off this list see list information at
>
[5][8][11][18][17]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htm
l
> -- References 1.
>
>
[9][12][19][18]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to%C3%AD@gamut
s
> tri
> n gs.com 2.
>
[10][13][20][19]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id60298871&ref=name
> 3. [11][14][21][20]http://www.myspace.com/edslute 4.
> [12][15][22][21]http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin
5.
>
[13][16][23][22]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> -- References 1. mailto:[17][24][23]e...@gamutstrings.com
2.
> mailto:[18][25][24]e...@gamutstrings.com 3.
> mailto:[19][26][25]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 4.
> mailto:[20][27][26]e...@gamutstrings.com 5.
>
[21][28][27]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id60298871&ref=name
6.
> [22][29][28]http://www.myspace.com/edslute 7.
> [23][30][29]http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin 8.
>
[24][31][30]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
9.
>
>
[25][32][31]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to%C3%AD@gamutstr
i
> ngs
> .com 10.
>
[26][33][32]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id60298871&ref=name
11.
> [27][34][33]http://www.myspace.com/edslute 12.
> [28][35][34]http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin 13.
>
[29][36][35]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
> References 1.
>
>
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>
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>
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.
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> 13.
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> [50][51]http://www.myspace.com/edslute 15.
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.
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> 21.
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25.
>
>
[61][63]http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to%C3%AD@gamutstrings
.
> com
> 26.
[62][64]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id60298871&ref=name 27.
> [63][65]http://www.myspace.com/edslute 28.
> [64][66]http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin 29.
> [65][67]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> --
>
> References
>
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>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [141]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
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70. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
71. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co
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