It's not "brave" so much as understanding how *not* to treat a hard drive.
On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 6:53 PM, John Syne <john3...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi William, > > You are way braver than me ;-) > > Regards, > John > > > > > On Dec 1, 2015, at 2:17 PM, William Hermans <yyrk...@gmail.com> wrote: > > @John, > > So talking about all this reminds me of "back in the day", when 320MB > drives were large, and expensive. So at that time I had an 80MB Maxtor I > believe it was, and it was nearly full. Knowing one of the local shop > owners in the town I lived in ( Montgomery Alabama if memory serves ) I > managed to get my hands on a used 320M Seagate that had known marked bad > sectors. For a good price(very cheap of course ). > > I used this drive for a couple years, and it was still functional when I > stopped using it. Once in a while I did have to fire up spinrite, to fix > things when the drive would lose it's brains . . . > > Anyway, all that health stuff does not really matter, until the drive > starts failing, with known bad sectors. Even then, software can most of the > time, fix these issues. With that said, this is not something a "normal" > person expects to do when paying good money for new hardware. > > I have one of the newer 5TB Seagate drives that comes in an USB 3.0 > enclosure. It works great. The only problem I've had with it so far is that > when copying file from itself, to itself, it makes that well known "bad" > seek "clunk". Every time I hear that noise it makes me cringe. . . needless > to say, I do not copy paste files from it, to it. Which is easy to fix, > just drag the file to the new location . . . > > Perfect situation ? Well no, but the drive also cost 40%-50% less than > what the competition was selling 4TB drives for, at that time. > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 11:30 AM, John Syne <john3...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> My guess is that they are not measuring those parameters (Latency). >> Regarding Health rating, I believe that has to do with the number of starts >> and hours of service. More important to me are the read/write/seek/sector >> errors. On a few month old Seagate Barracuda drives, these numbers are >> large, so I don’t know at what point those numbers become too big and I >> have to replace the drive. >> >> >> Regards, >> John >> >> >> >> >> On Dec 1, 2015, at 5:31 AM, mickeyf <mic...@thesweetoasis.com> wrote: >> >> My ignorance of this stuff is very nearly 100%, but why does "Issues >> found : 0" equate to 'Only' "Overall Health Rating 89.9%" ? >> >> Also, how do they get : >> "Latency Time (Read) : 0 ns" >> "Latency Time (Write) : 0 ns" >> >> ...unless this was programmed by the "rogue engineers" at Volkswagon? >> Surely it has latency > 0? >> >> Real questions, not facetious, just curious. >> >> >> On Sunday, November 29, 2015 at 2:32:22 PM UTC-8, john3909 wrote: >>> >>> Hi William, >>> >>> My comment was just a heads up so other developer’s don’t get take a hit >>> like I did. Just look at your disk SMART data and you will be surprised by >>> the number of errors on those disks. Here is an example of SMART info from >>> one of my 4TB WD disks I use with TimeMachine. As you can see, 0 errors in >>> the log. On my development system, I use 1TB Seagate SSD drives and they >>> work great. >>> >>> Last Checked : November 29, 2015 2:25:14 PM PST >>> Last Checked (ISO 8601 format) : 2015-11-29T14:25:14 >>> >>> Advanced SMART Status : OK >>> Overall Health Rating : GOOD 89.9% >>> Overall Performance Rating : GOOD 89.9% >>> Issues found : 0 >>> >>> Serial Number : WD-WCC4E0HHFLY1 >>> WWN Id : 5 0014ee 260fbf0bd >>> Volumes : TimeMachine1 >>> Device Path : /dev/disk4 >>> Total Capacity : 4.0 TB (4,000,787,030,016 Bytes) >>> Model Family : Western Digital Red >>> Model : WDC WD40EFRX-68WT0N0 >>> Firmware Version : 82.00A82 >>> Drive Type : HDD 5400 rpm >>> >>> Power On Time : 5,078 hours (7 months 1 days 14 >>> hours) >>> Power Cycles Count : 54 >>> Current Power Cycle Time : 22.1 hours >>> >>> >>> >>> === DEVICE CAPABILITIES === >>> S.M.A.R.T. support enabled : yes >>> DriveDx Active Diagnostic Config : Base config [hdd.default] >>> Sector Logical Size : 512 >>> Sector Physical Size : 4096 >>> Physical Interconnect : SATA >>> Removable : no >>> Ejectable : no >>> ATA Version : ACS-2 (minor revision not >>> indicated) >>> SATA Version : SATA 3.0, 6.0 Gb/s (current: 6.0 >>> Gb/s) >>> Bay # : 1 >>> I/O Path : >>> IOService:/AppleACPIPlatformExpert/PCI0@0/AppleACPIPCI/PEG1@1 >>> ,1/IOPP/UPSB@0/IOPP/DSB2@4/IOPP/UPS0@0/IOPP/pci-bridge@3 >>> /IOPP/pci1b21,612@0/AppleAHCI/PRT0@0/IOAHCIDevice@0 >>> /AppleAHCIDiskDriver/IOAHCIBlockStorageDevice >>> Attributes Data Structure Revision : 16 >>> SMART Command Transport (SCT) flags : 0x703d >>> SCT Status supported : yes >>> SCT Feature Control supported : yes >>> SCT Data Table supported : yes >>> Error logging capabilities : 0x1 >>> Self-tests supported : yes >>> Offline Data Collection capabilities : 0x7b >>> Offline Data Collection status : 0x0 >>> Auto Offline Data Collection flags : 0x0 >>> [Known device ]: yes >>> [Drive State Flags ]: 0x0 >>> >>> >>> === CURRENT POWER CYCLE STATISTICS === >>> Data Read : 2.2 GB >>> Data Written : 3.5 GB >>> Data Read/Write Ratio : 0.62 >>> Average Throughput (Read) : 1.2 MB/s >>> Average Throughput (Write) : 932.4 KB/s >>> >>> Operations (Read) : 175,372 >>> Operations (Write) : 153,554 >>> Operations Read/Write Ratio : 1 >>> Throughput per operation (Read) : 12.9 KB/Op >>> Throughput per operation (Write) : 23.6 KB/Op >>> >>> Latency Time (Read) : 0 ns >>> Latency Time (Write) : 0 ns >>> Retries (Read) : 0 >>> Retries (Write) : 0 >>> Errors (Read) : 0 >>> Errors (Write) : 0 >>> >>> >>> === PROBLEMS SUMMARY === >>> Failed Indicators (life-span / pre-fail) : 0 (0 / 0) >>> Failing Indicators (life-span / pre-fail) : 0 (0 / 0) >>> Warnings (life-span / pre-fail) : 0 (0 / 0) >>> Recently failed Self-tests (Short / Full) : 0 (0 / 0) >>> I/O Errors Count : 0 (0 / 0) >>> Time in Under temperature : 0 minutes >>> Time in Over temperature : 0 minutes >>> >>> >>> === IMPORTANT HEALTH INDICATORS === >>> ID NAME RAW VALUE >>> STATUS >>> 5 Reallocated Sector Count 0 >>> 100% OK >>> 197 Current Pending Sectors Count 0 >>> 100% OK >>> 198 Offline Uncorrectable Sector Count 0 >>> 100% OK >>> 199 UDMA CRC Error Count 0 >>> 100% OK >>> >>> >>> === TEMPERATURE INFORMATION (CELSIUS) === >>> Current Temperature : 33 >>> Power Cycle Min Temperature : 27 >>> Power Cycle Max Temperature : 37 >>> Lifetime Min Temperature : 23 >>> Lifetime Max Temperature : 49 >>> Recommended Min Temperature : 0 >>> Recommended Max Temperature : 60 >>> Temperature Min Limit : -41 >>> Temperature Max Limit : 85 >>> >>> >>> === DRIVE HEALTH INDICATORS === >>> ID | NAME | TYPE | UPDATE >>> | RAW VALUE | VALUE | THRESHOLD | WORST | STATUS >>> | LAST MODIFIED >>> 1 Raw Read Error Rate Pre-fail online >>> 0x0 200 51 200 100% OK >>> 5/13/15 8:43 PM >>> 3 Spin Up Time Pre-fail online >>> 7,891 182 21 177 89.9% OK >>> 11/29/15 2:25 PM >>> 4 Start Stop Count Life-span online >>> 4,129 96 0 96 96.0% OK >>> 11/29/15 2:25 PM >>> 5 Reallocated Sector Count Pre-fail online >>> 0 200 140 200 100% OK >>> - >>> 7 Seek Error Rate Life-span online >>> 0x0 200 0 200 100% OK >>> - >>> 9 Power On Hours Life-span online >>> 5,078 94 0 94 94.0% OK >>> 11/29/15 2:25 PM >>> 10 Spin Retry Count Life-span online >>> 0 100 0 100 100% OK >>> - >>> 11 Calibration Retry Count Life-span online >>> 0 100 0 253 100% OK >>> - >>> 12 Power Cycle Count Life-span online >>> 54 100 0 100 100% OK >>> 11/28/15 4:19 PM >>> 192 Power-Off Retract Count Life-span online >>> 21 200 0 200 100% OK >>> 11/12/15 2:02 PM >>> 193 Load Cycle Count Life-span online >>> 9,125 197 0 197 98.5% OK >>> 11/29/15 2:25 PM >>> 194 Temperature (Celsius) Life-span online >>> 33 119 0 103 99.2% OK >>> 11/29/15 2:25 PM >>> 196 Reallocated Event Count Life-span online >>> 0 200 0 200 100% OK >>> - >>> 197 Current Pending Sectors Count Life-span online >>> 0 200 0 200 100% OK >>> - >>> 198 Offline Uncorrectable Sector Count Life-span offline >>> 0 100 0 253 100% OK >>> - >>> 199 UDMA CRC Error Count Life-span online >>> 0 200 0 200 100% OK >>> - >>> 200 Multi Zone Error Rate Life-span offline >>> 0 100 0 253 100% OK >>> - >>> >>> >>> >>> === DRIVE ERROR LOG === >>> error log is empty >>> >>> >>> === DRIVE SELF-TEST LOG === >>> self-test log is empty >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> John >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Nov 29, 2015, at 1:42 PM, William Hermans <yyr...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> *. . .the only purpose of a RAID backup is to prevent a single point of >>>> failure (like a disk failure) resulting in lost backups.* >>> >>> >>> You do not need a RAID array to prevent a single point of failure. You >>> take those 3+ disks, put them in 3 different machines. Or even in the same >>> machine as single drives. Same difference, only less wear and tear on the >>> drives, more cost effective, and perhaps a small amount slower as singles. >>> >>> In the field you'll likely not run into any RAID 5/6 arrays. At least >>> for corporate storage. You're more likely to see RAID10, or RAID0 + 1. >>> Because there is nothing faster than striping disks, and RAID1 does not >>> have an impact on performance if set up correctly. RAID5/6 is just a way >>> for the home user to feel all warm and fuzzy . . and literally feed the >>> companies who offer the hardware for such arrays. Be it controllers, or >>> "special" hard drives . . . special software, chipsets with BS built in >>> RAID( software ). >>> >>> I still use Seagate drives(nothing but), and have no issues. Why ? >>> Probably because I do not run RAID. RAID is notorious for being hard on >>> drives. Especially RAID 5/6. I will admit, that Seagate's reputation has >>> gone into the toilette in the last 8 or so years. All their drives used to >>> be lifetime warranty. Now days I think they give 3 years . . . not even as >>> good as WD, or even Samsung SSDs . . . >>> >>> Anyway, seriously. Unless you're running a server that sees thousands+ >>> of transactions a day. You don't need RAID. But hey, don't pay attention to >>> me. . . >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 1:44 PM, John Syne <john...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> That makes perfect sense. BTW, the only purpose of a RAID backup is to >>>> prevent a single point of failure (like a disk failure) resulting in lost >>>> backups. >>>> >>>> One thing to pay attention to is the MTBF numbers for disks. I was a >>>> firm believer in Seagate Barracuda disk until I had a whole number of them >>>> fail over a few months. Speaking Seagate tech support, they explained that >>>> the SMART data on these disks showed they had more than the 3,000 hours >>>> MTBF and hence I should have expected them to fail. I couldn’t believe what >>>> they told me; running their disks 24 hours/day, they expected failures in >>>> 1/3 of a year. They were right, look at the SMART data on Seagate disks and >>>> you will see read write errors in the 10’s of thousands or more. >>>> >>>> After that I use Western Digital RED disks which are designed for 24/7 >>>> NAS applications. Looking at the disk SMART data, I see 0 read/write >>>> errors. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> John >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > On Nov 29, 2015, at 3:37 AM, c...@isbd.net wrote: >>>> > >>>> > John Syne <john...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >> [-- text/plain, encoding quoted-printable, charset: UTF-8, 156 lines >>>> --] >>>> >> >>>> >> Yeah, but rsync only gives you a snapshot and not a history of your >>>> backup. >>>> >> When I really mess up, I want to go back to the state of my machine >>>> 15 >>>> >> minutes ago, or two days ago. This has saved me a lot of head >>>> scratching, >>>> >> trying to find out where I messed up. I really like the way >>>> timemachine >>>> > >>>> > I use an rsync based incremental backup system (I wrote it myself >>>> > having used rsnapshot for a while, rsnapshot is OK but I think it's >>>> > too complex). >>>> > >>>> > I do hourly incremental backups locally to another disk on my main >>>> > machine and I do daily incremental backups to a remote machine. The >>>> > daily remote backups get thinned out as they get older so there are >>>> > daily backups for the last month, then monthly ones for 12 months, >>>> > then yearly ones. >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > Chris Green >>>> > · >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss >>>> > --- >>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "BeagleBoard" group. >>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>> send an email to beagleboard...@googlegroups.com. >>>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "BeagleBoard" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to beagleboard...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "BeagleBoard" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to beagleboard...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "BeagleBoard" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> -- >> For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "BeagleBoard" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > -- > For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "BeagleBoard" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "BeagleBoard" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BeagleBoard" group. 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