Hello Patrick, Thanks again for your help, this has been quite insightful.
Kind regards, Jorge On Sun, 28 Nov 2021 at 11:31, 'Patrick Ruckstuhl' via Beancount <beancount@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > Hi Jorge, > > Yes having different income accounts makes sense if you are interested in > knowing the details. Interest needs to go vs income/expenses as it's an > outflow, you can't get it back when you sell the flat, so it shouldn't > increase your loan. > > Regards, > Patrick > > On November 28, 2021 12:14:24 PM GMT+01:00, "Jorge Martínez López" > <jorg...@jorgeml.me> wrote: > >Hello Patrick, > > > >Thanks again! > > > >Is there any reason why the payment for the interest expenses cannot > >be done against the Liabilities (loan Jorge and Partner) instead of > >the Income accounts? That way the liability accounts would track the > >whole amount going into the flat (Asset + Mortgage Interest) while the > >Income accounts would track the 50%/50% contributions to the regular > >ongoing expenses. > >If the reason to use Income is to balance Assets and Liabilities, and > >Income and Expenses... would it be correct to have a separate account > >for Income to track each of our contributions towards paying the > >interest? > > > >Income:Jorge:Shared (<-- 50% ongoing expenses) > >Income:Jorge:Mortgage (<-- 70% of the interest expenses) > >Income:Partner:Shared (<-- 50% ongoing expenses) > >Income:Partner:Mortgage (<-- 30% if the interest expenses) > > > >(I'm hoping our lender breaks down how much goes into the interest and > >how much into the principal on a monthly basis, otherwise it's going > >to be interesting). > > > >Kind regards, > >Jorge > > > >On Sun, 28 Nov 2021 at 09:48, 'Patrick Ruckstuhl' via Beancount > ><beancount@googlegroups.com> wrote: > >> > >> Hi Jorge, > >> > >> > >> If the monthly contributions are interest (so not reducing the principal > >> of the loan), they are expenses, so I would model it like this > >> > >> Income:Jorge -200 > >> Income:Partner -100 > >> Expenses:Interest 300 > >> > >> > >> If they are paying back some of the principal, I would model it like > >> this (basically you are shifting the loan from the bank to you and your > >> partner) > >> > >> Liabilities:LoanJorge -600 > >> Liabilities:LoanPartner -100 > >> Liabilities:LoanBank 700 > >> > >> > >> If it's a combination you will have both. > >> > >> Regards, > >> Patrick > >> > >> On 28.11.2021 10:15, Jorge Martínez López wrote: > >> > Hi Patrick, > >> > > >> > This is indeed quite useful and does exactly what I need, thanks a lot. > >> > > >> > For the sake of completeness, I assume that monthly contributions > >> > towards the mortgage would look like this on the shared ledger: > >> > > >> > Liabilities:LoanJorge -800 > >> > Liabilities:LoanPartner -200 > >> > Liabilities:LoanBank 700 > >> > Expenses:Interest 300 > >> > > >> > Kind regards, > >> > Jorge > >> > > >> > On Sat, 27 Nov 2021 at 19:21, 'Patrick Ruckstuhl' via Beancount > >> > <beancount@googlegroups.com> wrote: > >> >> Hi, > >> >> > >> >> It's always about splitting income/expense from asset flows > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> So to give a more complete example for buying a flat. > >> >> > >> >> My assumptions > >> >> > >> >> - deposit is 5000, you pay 3000, your partner 2000 > >> >> > >> >> - you pay an additional 10000 for the flat out of assets, you 8000, > >> >> partner 2000 > >> >> > >> >> - you take on a common loan from a bank for 20000 > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Jorge > >> >> > >> >> Assets:Receivable:LoanFlat > >> >> > >> >> +3000 Deposit > >> >> > >> >> +8000 Purchase > >> >> > >> >> Expenses:Common > >> >> > >> >> + 1000 > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Partner > >> >> > >> >> Assets:Receivable:LoanFlat > >> >> > >> >> +2000 Deposit > >> >> > >> >> +2000 Purchase > >> >> > >> >> Expenses:Common > >> >> > >> >> +1000 > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Common > >> >> > >> >> Assets:Flat > >> >> > >> >> +3000 from Liabilities:LoanJorge (Deposit) > >> >> > >> >> +2000 from Liabilities:LoanPartner (Deposit) > >> >> > >> >> +8000 from Liabilities:LoanJorge (Purchase) > >> >> > >> >> +2000 from Liabilities:LoanPartner (Purchase) > >> >> > >> >> +20000 from Liabilities:LoanBank > >> >> > >> >> Liabilities:LoanBank > >> >> > >> >> -20000 > >> >> > >> >> Liabilities:LoanJorge > >> >> > >> >> -3000 > >> >> > >> >> -8000 > >> >> > >> >> Liabilities:LoanPartner > >> >> > >> >> -2000 > >> >> > >> >> -2000 > >> >> > >> >> Income:Jorge > >> >> > >> >> +1000 > >> >> > >> >> Income:Partner > >> >> > >> >> +1000 > >> >> > >> >> Expenses:Fees > >> >> > >> >> -2000 > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On 27.11.2021 10:20, Jorge Martínez López wrote: > >> >>> Hello, > >> >>> > >> >>> Thanks Patrick! > >> >>> > >> >>> Your model makes sense. From the individual ledger point of view, do > >> >>> you also include the interest paid in the transfer to > >> >>> Assets:Receivable:LoanFlat? Or would you transfer it to > >> >>> Expenses:Shared or Expenses:Interest? > >> >>> > >> >>> In the common ledger I still have the issue that the one-off large > >> >>> contribution to the deposit (from Income:Jorge and Income:Partner to > >> >>> Assets:Home:Deposit) is significantly larger than our normal monthly > >> >>> incomes and expenses, so the charts in the income statement are now a > >> >>> bit unreadable. Is there any way around this? What about the monthly > >> >>> contribution, would you create separate income accounts for regular > >> >>> expenses (at 50%) and flat contributions? > >> >>> > >> >>> Thanks again for your help! > >> >>> > >> >>> Kind regards, > >> >>> Jorge > >> >>> > >> >>> On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 at 10:42, 'Patrick Ruckstuhl' via Beancount > >> >>> <beancount@googlegroups.com> wrote: > >> >>>> Hi Jorge, > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> The way I would model this is, to model the flat itself as an asset > >> >>>> and > >> >>>> the contributions to the flat as loans. Something like this > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Jorge > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Assets:Receivable:LoanFlat > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Partner > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Assets:Receivable:LoanFlat > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Common > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Assets:Flat > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Liabilities:LoanJorge > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Liabilities:LoanPartner > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Because in the end this is not an expense, but a change of "assets". > >> >>>> You > >> >>>> "converted" cash into a flat. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> That should solve both your problems. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> One time fees for the purchase would be modeled as expenses but the > >> >>>> main > >> >>>> part of the money should be converted into the asset with the value of > >> >>>> the flat. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Regards, > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Patrick > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> On 26.11.2021 11:32, Jorge Martínez López wrote: > >> >>>>> Hi folks, > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> Just wanted to run this through the group to make sure I'm doing > >> >>>>> things the right way. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> I have been using Beancount for a couple of years. I started with a > >> >>>>> single ledger but then moved to two: one to track my own income and > >> >>>>> expenses, the other for shared expenses with my partner (bills and > >> >>>>> groceries). > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> For the shared expenses every month I transfer some money from my > >> >>>>> personal bank account to our joint account. In my personal ledger > >> >>>>> that > >> >>>>> goes to "Expenses:Shared:Partner", and in the shared ledger that > >> >>>>> comes > >> >>>>> from "Income:Jorge" (and Income:Partner for her transfers). > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> That has worked very well but now there is a slight complication as > >> >>>>> we > >> >>>>> are going to buy a flat and while we will still pay the bills 50% / > >> >>>>> 50%, I'll be paying a slightly higher share of the flat. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> The first hurdle is that now the "Income:Jorge" and "Income:Partner" > >> >>>>> accounts in the shared ledger are not balanced 50% / 50%. I was > >> >>>>> thinking about using separate "Income" accounts for contributions to > >> >>>>> the flat or perhaps using tags to exclude tagged transactions in the > >> >>>>> fava dashboards but I can't find the way to do it. Moreover, I guess > >> >>>>> that I'd also need subaccounts on the "Expenses" and "Liabilities" > >> >>>>> accounts (for interests and mortgage)? > >> >>>>> The other thing that doesn't look entirely right is that as soon as > >> >>>>> we > >> >>>>> transfer the money for the deposit into the joint account the scaling > >> >>>>> of the Fava charts went much higher so our normal income and expenses > >> >>>>> are now almost invisible. Which makes me think... Perhaps I'm doing > >> >>>>> this wrong and should track the flat on a separate third ledger? > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> I'm hoping this is a rather common scenario and most folks have > >> >>>>> cracked this. I'd appreciate your thoughts on this. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> Kind regards, > >> >>>>> Jorge > >> >>>>> > >> >>>> -- > >> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> >>>> Groups "Beancount" group. > >> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > >> >>>> send an email to beancount+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > >> >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit > >> >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beancount/13cfdb77-8fbc-d0e7-671c-867cbe158971%40ch.tario.org. > >> >> -- > >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> >> Groups "Beancount" group. > >> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > >> >> an email to beancount+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > >> >> To view this discussion on the web visit > >> >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beancount/f3a65da9-5af7-f934-1a77-65569213d8bf%40ch.tario.org. > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >> "Beancount" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > >> email to beancount+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > >> To view this discussion on the web visit > >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beancount/6c6a0278-9f21-2d50-cc40-d2a16e4cb38d%40ch.tario.org. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Beancount" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to beancount+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beancount/C1D71727-80A6-41F8-A220-3A8F9646946E%40ch.tario.org. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Beancount" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beancount+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beancount/CAF%2BwLip1%3D%3Dqe90Lt-2H2R82ztZeb9QctSsHJ1sSCgKQcoqy3dg%40mail.gmail.com.
