Hi all, I have a similar question. However my setup is slightly different in that we don't have a preset division of the loan. We divide the contribution to both based on how our income compares, so this can change over the years. As such, and on advice of the notary, we want to keep track of how much each of us contributed to the loan repayment, as that it relevant for what part of the house we own if we are ever to break up.
Similarly, there might be times when someone misses a payment, or pays too much. So I would like to see one account for each which designates our standing towards the shared account. So what I would ideally be able to see is this: - Equity:House:Me/Partner => Accumulated repayment amount for each fo us - Liabilities(??):Me/Partner => Current standing, should usually be (around) 0 - Expenses:Interest => Should show how much interest we paid (not that important, but nice to see). What also plays a part is that the loan is made up of 3 parts, so each month there are 3 transactions. Helpfully the description contains the repayment and interest amounts, so I have written an importer that can add the right postings. But I'm still a bit clueless as to where to post this so that I can achieve the above. If I post to some intermediate Liabilities:Hypotheek:Part-1 and Expenses:Interest, how would I also make this show up on our personal balance accounts? Regards, Tino On Monday 29 November 2021 at 10:23:10 UTC+1 Jorge Martínez López wrote: > Hello Patrick, > > Thanks again for your help, this has been quite insightful. > > Kind regards, > Jorge > > On Sun, 28 Nov 2021 at 11:31, 'Patrick Ruckstuhl' via Beancount > <bean...@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > > Hi Jorge, > > > > Yes having different income accounts makes sense if you are interested > in knowing the details. Interest needs to go vs income/expenses as it's an > outflow, you can't get it back when you sell the flat, so it shouldn't > increase your loan. > > > > Regards, > > Patrick > > > > On November 28, 2021 12:14:24 PM GMT+01:00, "Jorge Martínez López" < > jor...@jorgeml.me> wrote: > > >Hello Patrick, > > > > > >Thanks again! > > > > > >Is there any reason why the payment for the interest expenses cannot > > >be done against the Liabilities (loan Jorge and Partner) instead of > > >the Income accounts? That way the liability accounts would track the > > >whole amount going into the flat (Asset + Mortgage Interest) while the > > >Income accounts would track the 50%/50% contributions to the regular > > >ongoing expenses. > > >If the reason to use Income is to balance Assets and Liabilities, and > > >Income and Expenses... would it be correct to have a separate account > > >for Income to track each of our contributions towards paying the > > >interest? > > > > > >Income:Jorge:Shared (<-- 50% ongoing expenses) > > >Income:Jorge:Mortgage (<-- 70% of the interest expenses) > > >Income:Partner:Shared (<-- 50% ongoing expenses) > > >Income:Partner:Mortgage (<-- 30% if the interest expenses) > > > > > >(I'm hoping our lender breaks down how much goes into the interest and > > >how much into the principal on a monthly basis, otherwise it's going > > >to be interesting). > > > > > >Kind regards, > > >Jorge > > > > > >On Sun, 28 Nov 2021 at 09:48, 'Patrick Ruckstuhl' via Beancount > > ><bean...@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > >> > > >> Hi Jorge, > > >> > > >> > > >> If the monthly contributions are interest (so not reducing the > principal > > >> of the loan), they are expenses, so I would model it like this > > >> > > >> Income:Jorge -200 > > >> Income:Partner -100 > > >> Expenses:Interest 300 > > >> > > >> > > >> If they are paying back some of the principal, I would model it like > > >> this (basically you are shifting the loan from the bank to you and > your > > >> partner) > > >> > > >> Liabilities:LoanJorge -600 > > >> Liabilities:LoanPartner -100 > > >> Liabilities:LoanBank 700 > > >> > > >> > > >> If it's a combination you will have both. > > >> > > >> Regards, > > >> Patrick > > >> > > >> On 28.11.2021 10:15, Jorge Martínez López wrote: > > >> > Hi Patrick, > > >> > > > >> > This is indeed quite useful and does exactly what I need, thanks a > lot. > > >> > > > >> > For the sake of completeness, I assume that monthly contributions > > >> > towards the mortgage would look like this on the shared ledger: > > >> > > > >> > Liabilities:LoanJorge -800 > > >> > Liabilities:LoanPartner -200 > > >> > Liabilities:LoanBank 700 > > >> > Expenses:Interest 300 > > >> > > > >> > Kind regards, > > >> > Jorge > > >> > > > >> > On Sat, 27 Nov 2021 at 19:21, 'Patrick Ruckstuhl' via Beancount > > >> > <bean...@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > >> >> Hi, > > >> >> > > >> >> It's always about splitting income/expense from asset flows > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> So to give a more complete example for buying a flat. > > >> >> > > >> >> My assumptions > > >> >> > > >> >> - deposit is 5000, you pay 3000, your partner 2000 > > >> >> > > >> >> - you pay an additional 10000 for the flat out of assets, you 8000, > > >> >> partner 2000 > > >> >> > > >> >> - you take on a common loan from a bank for 20000 > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> Jorge > > >> >> > > >> >> Assets:Receivable:LoanFlat > > >> >> > > >> >> +3000 Deposit > > >> >> > > >> >> +8000 Purchase > > >> >> > > >> >> Expenses:Common > > >> >> > > >> >> + 1000 > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> Partner > > >> >> > > >> >> Assets:Receivable:LoanFlat > > >> >> > > >> >> +2000 Deposit > > >> >> > > >> >> +2000 Purchase > > >> >> > > >> >> Expenses:Common > > >> >> > > >> >> +1000 > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> Common > > >> >> > > >> >> Assets:Flat > > >> >> > > >> >> +3000 from Liabilities:LoanJorge (Deposit) > > >> >> > > >> >> +2000 from Liabilities:LoanPartner (Deposit) > > >> >> > > >> >> +8000 from Liabilities:LoanJorge (Purchase) > > >> >> > > >> >> +2000 from Liabilities:LoanPartner (Purchase) > > >> >> > > >> >> +20000 from Liabilities:LoanBank > > >> >> > > >> >> Liabilities:LoanBank > > >> >> > > >> >> -20000 > > >> >> > > >> >> Liabilities:LoanJorge > > >> >> > > >> >> -3000 > > >> >> > > >> >> -8000 > > >> >> > > >> >> Liabilities:LoanPartner > > >> >> > > >> >> -2000 > > >> >> > > >> >> -2000 > > >> >> > > >> >> Income:Jorge > > >> >> > > >> >> +1000 > > >> >> > > >> >> Income:Partner > > >> >> > > >> >> +1000 > > >> >> > > >> >> Expenses:Fees > > >> >> > > >> >> -2000 > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> On 27.11.2021 10:20, Jorge Martínez López wrote: > > >> >>> Hello, > > >> >>> > > >> >>> Thanks Patrick! > > >> >>> > > >> >>> Your model makes sense. From the individual ledger point of view, > do > > >> >>> you also include the interest paid in the transfer to > > >> >>> Assets:Receivable:LoanFlat? Or would you transfer it to > > >> >>> Expenses:Shared or Expenses:Interest? > > >> >>> > > >> >>> In the common ledger I still have the issue that the one-off large > > >> >>> contribution to the deposit (from Income:Jorge and Income:Partner > to > > >> >>> Assets:Home:Deposit) is significantly larger than our normal > monthly > > >> >>> incomes and expenses, so the charts in the income statement are > now a > > >> >>> bit unreadable. Is there any way around this? What about the > monthly > > >> >>> contribution, would you create separate income accounts for > regular > > >> >>> expenses (at 50%) and flat contributions? > > >> >>> > > >> >>> Thanks again for your help! > > >> >>> > > >> >>> Kind regards, > > >> >>> Jorge > > >> >>> > > >> >>> On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 at 10:42, 'Patrick Ruckstuhl' via Beancount > > >> >>> <bean...@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > >> >>>> Hi Jorge, > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> The way I would model this is, to model the flat itself as an > asset and > > >> >>>> the contributions to the flat as loans. Something like this > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> Jorge > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> Assets:Receivable:LoanFlat > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> Partner > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> Assets:Receivable:LoanFlat > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> Common > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> Assets:Flat > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> Liabilities:LoanJorge > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> Liabilities:LoanPartner > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> Because in the end this is not an expense, but a change of > "assets". You > > >> >>>> "converted" cash into a flat. > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> That should solve both your problems. > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> One time fees for the purchase would be modeled as expenses but > the main > > >> >>>> part of the money should be converted into the asset with the > value of > > >> >>>> the flat. > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> Regards, > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> Patrick > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> On 26.11.2021 11:32, Jorge Martínez López wrote: > > >> >>>>> Hi folks, > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>> Just wanted to run this through the group to make sure I'm doing > > >> >>>>> things the right way. > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>> I have been using Beancount for a couple of years. I started > with a > > >> >>>>> single ledger but then moved to two: one to track my own income > and > > >> >>>>> expenses, the other for shared expenses with my partner (bills > and > > >> >>>>> groceries). > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>> For the shared expenses every month I transfer some money from > my > > >> >>>>> personal bank account to our joint account. In my personal > ledger that > > >> >>>>> goes to "Expenses:Shared:Partner", and in the shared ledger > that comes > > >> >>>>> from "Income:Jorge" (and Income:Partner for her transfers). > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>> That has worked very well but now there is a slight > complication as we > > >> >>>>> are going to buy a flat and while we will still pay the bills > 50% / > > >> >>>>> 50%, I'll be paying a slightly higher share of the flat. > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>> The first hurdle is that now the "Income:Jorge" and > "Income:Partner" > > >> >>>>> accounts in the shared ledger are not balanced 50% / 50%. I was > > >> >>>>> thinking about using separate "Income" accounts for > contributions to > > >> >>>>> the flat or perhaps using tags to exclude tagged transactions > in the > > >> >>>>> fava dashboards but I can't find the way to do it. Moreover, I > guess > > >> >>>>> that I'd also need subaccounts on the "Expenses" and > "Liabilities" > > >> >>>>> accounts (for interests and mortgage)? > > >> >>>>> The other thing that doesn't look entirely right is that as > soon as we > > >> >>>>> transfer the money for the deposit into the joint account the > scaling > > >> >>>>> of the Fava charts went much higher so our normal income and > expenses > > >> >>>>> are now almost invisible. Which makes me think... Perhaps I'm > doing > > >> >>>>> this wrong and should track the flat on a separate third ledger? > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>> I'm hoping this is a rather common scenario and most folks have > > >> >>>>> cracked this. I'd appreciate your thoughts on this. > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>> Kind regards, > > >> >>>>> Jorge > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>> -- > > >> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google Groups "Beancount" group. > > >> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from > it, send an email to beancount+...@googlegroups.com. > > >> >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beancount/13cfdb77-8fbc-d0e7-671c-867cbe158971%40ch.tario.org > . > > >> >> -- > > >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Beancount" group. > > >> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to beancount+...@googlegroups.com. > > >> >> To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beancount/f3a65da9-5af7-f934-1a77-65569213d8bf%40ch.tario.org > . > > >> > > >> -- > > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Beancount" group. > > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to beancount+...@googlegroups.com. > > >> To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beancount/6c6a0278-9f21-2d50-cc40-d2a16e4cb38d%40ch.tario.org > . > > > > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Beancount" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to beancount+...@googlegroups.com. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beancount/C1D71727-80A6-41F8-A220-3A8F9646946E%40ch.tario.org > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Beancount" group. 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