Reza, Thanks again :). The prospect (un)fortunately has an invoice of over $10K monthly, so I guess we are SoL.
Thanks in any case, the information you've provided has been enlightening. Best Regards, Ivan Kovacevic Vice President, Client Services Star Telecom | www.startelecom.ca | SIP Based Services for Contact Centers | LinkedIn -----Original Message----- From: Reza - Voipernetics [mailto:r...@voipernetics.com] Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2015 12:36 AM To: "Asterisk Business [biz@taug.ca]" Subject: Re: [biz] Bell business hassles. *Hey Chuck! *I hear what you are saying. And for exactly the frustrating points you have outlined, CRTC now gives the upper hand to the end user. Since January 23 2015, number porting per my experience has been almost effortless and swift. A normal process of few business days is now shrunk to 48 hrs. Emergency porting can be done within hours but carriers charge an administrative fee as at least 3 people are involved in the process between the winning and loosing carriers. *Jim, thank you sir! *I appreciate the compliment! This knowledge has been learned through root canal procedures without the novocain, but the real thanks goes to the CRTC Information officer who pointed me to the 576 policy, and the hundreds of end users including some VOIP providers who took the time to file complaints. Yet another awesome example of people and pen power. *Ivan, per your quote, *"Unfortunately, most of these decisions are for Individuals or Small Businesses... anything similar you've come across for enterprise contracts? " Correction: It also holds true for enterprise contracts being invoiced $2500 or less per month. --= A more practical response =-- I have an enterprise customer from Calgary, one of the largest Real Estate firms. We've acquired another "enterprise" client from Calgary who is in the emergency response business. We had absolutely no problem assisting them to break away from the "auto renewing" annual contract with the ILEC in the area. Sure there was resistance, but we threw the CRTC 576 policy on the table with success. The definition of an enterprise, smb or soho is very subjective these days. But CRTC has a clear definition of "small business". ** CRTC Definition of small-business: " The telecommunications industry ombudsman, the Commissioner for Complaints for Telecommunications Services (CCTS), defines a “small business” as a business "whose average monthly telecommunications bill is under $2,500. " Source: http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2014/2014-576.htm#fnb9 Most Canadian Enterprises having 100 employees, average 2-3 PRI's That's usually less than $2,500 per month. CRTC considers this "less than $2500/month end user", a "small business". Ivan, call your prospect first thing Monday before somebody else does! I'm 100% sure they could use the savings and appreciate your services. Cheers! Reza. -- FOUNDER & SR. TELECOM ANALYST VOIPERNETICS COMMUNICATIONS TEL: 647-847-2287 x2016 Chuck Mariotti wrote on 6/19/2015 10:38 PM: > I'm not remotely close to being involved to the level of those making > statements... > > But as a casual observer, I think the one pain point is that a telephone > number is an identity. > Once obtained, it becomes embedded in the branding, is a point of contact > and is part of the life blood of the company (or person). > > Unfortunately, bundling of phone, hardware and other services by contract > have been linked to the phone number. A bad provider or bad experience or > a better deal or a change of business or whatever... should not be > directly linked the ownership of that number. It is essentially allowing a > company or person to be held hostage by a creditor or contract due to the > disruption that it could cause. When in fact, they should be in line like > all other creditors or go the route of the courts... allowing the business > to decide to breach or challenge the contract WITHOUT the hostage > component. Providing free hardware over a period is the same as providing > credit. If there is a default, get in line like all the other creditors... > you should have done your homework. > > Bundling discounts is also similar... hell, even email addresses are... > Want to jump ship from Rogers? You lose that @Roger.com address! You sure > you want to do that? > > Very frustrating... > > Regards, > > Chuck > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reza - Voipernetics [mailto:r...@voipernetics.com] > Sent: June-19-15 7:56 PM > To: "Asterisk Business [biz@taug.ca]" > Subject: Re: [biz] Bell business hassles. > > /*Greetings Phil, Greetings Nabeel:*/ > > Since there is a fair bit of confusion and I get this question most of the > time from my resellers, here is a very detailed response for everyone, to > what I call the CRTC 576 decision, which is my favourite. > > Nabeel's quote, " /Just a tangential comment, that 2 year max contract > term for wireless applied to consumers, not businesses./ " > Phil's quote, " /I know the crtc slaped mobile carriers a year so ago with > now the 2 year max contract terms./ " > > Both of you are right. But there are more updates as of January 23 2015. > I have direct first hand experience with this and fortunately the law is > on the side of "the end user" and allows us small telcos to be in > competition with the deep pockets, eliminating monopolization and > extortion, giving the consumer (every day folks) and _small-business**_ > owner "choices" to escape from monopolization and extortion. > > I am using the strong word extortion primarily because I know first hand > certain voip providers under certain circumstances has told their > subscribers, "Pay up your balance owing for the remainder of the > contract, or else... ". To address the inconvenience issues which > hurts the service end-user and in cases has caused much financial hardship > and damage, CRTC has some amazing policies in place as of January 23, > 2015. This has favoured me as a service provider and will favour other > providers such as yourselves. > > In a recorded phone conversation with a CRTC Policy Officer, I said, > "What if I installed equipment worth $2,000 free of charge and the end > user owes me $10K in services, and I do not allow them to port out? ". > The response from the officer was, "Per CRTC policy, you must release the > number. Any money owing is a matter of the court and collections". > > The very long story short in layman's language: > > * 30 Day cancellation policies are not allowed at this stage. > * 12 / 24 / 36 / 48 month contracts are not allowed any more (for > services). > * Removal of any mention of a 30 day cancellation policy is ordered by > the CRTC in terms of use / policies etc. > * End User can choose to bail anytime (even if they owe you thousands > of dollars) > * Customer has the right to port number to another carrier of their > choice. > * Service providers cannot abruptly terminate an end user's services > for non-payment of fees without giving them "reasonable notice". > * End User can bail out to a new provider the next day of the "notice > of termination". > * As long as there is a "dial tone", the customer / end user can > request a port out to a new provider. > > Sure, service providers (Bell & Rogers included) can make an end user sign > a contract, but the end user can "cancel" it anytime after January > 23 2015 without getting penalized. Nabeel, Phil, the best analogy I > can give is the three of us can sign a contract that we will drive 100 km > per hour and cross every red light on a 60 zone. In essence that contract > would not hold in court as we would be breaking the law. And that > contract itself could put us in trouble as we have agreed to do something > illegal. > > _*Hopefully the above summary will help both of you understand and help > other competitors understand.*_ The decisions and new policies in > place has been a result of 100+ complaints to the CRTC and hundreds of > pages of appeal and concerns from competitors and new service providers > who were losing opportunities due the the Bell and Rogers contracts. > > Below are **direct** quotes from CRTC for everyone's convenience: > > ** CRTC Defition of "_*small-business*_ ": > Source: http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2014/2014-576.htm#fnb9 > " The telecommunications industry ombudsman, the Commissioner for > Complaints for Telecommunications Services (CCTS), defines a “small > business” as a business _*whose average monthly telecommunications bill is > under $2,500.*_" > > My favourite CRTC decision, what I call the "576" decision. To be more > specific, the Regulatory Policy 2014-576. > " /The Commission determines that 30-day cancellation policies for local > voice services, Internet services, and broadcasting distribution services > (e.g. cable and satellite television services) *will be prohibited as of > 23 January 2015.*/**" > Source: http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2014/2014-576.htm > > Point Number 39: " The Commission hereby _*prohibits*_ the use by > telecommunications service providers _*of 30-day cancellation policies for > individual and small-business customers*_ of retail telecommunications > services. This will empower these consumers to make informed choices in > the competitive market, and will contribute to making this market more > dynamic. " > Source: http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2014/2014-576.htm > > Point Number 40: " Accordingly, the Commission directs Canadian > carriers that provide retail local voice services including VoIP, and/or > Internet services to individual or small-business customers to adhere to > the following requirement, as a condition of providing these services > pursuant to section 24 of the Telecommunications Act, no later than 23 > January 2015: > > Cancellation date > > * Customers _*may cancel their contract at any time*_ by notifying > their service provider. > * Cancellation takes effect _*on the day that the service provider > receives notice of the cancellation*_. > * The Commission notes that pursuant to Broadcasting and Telecom > Regulatory Policy 2011-191, Canadian carriers and BDUs _*must > accept a customer cancellation request from a prospective new > service provider, on behalf of a customer*_. > > Source: http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2014/2014-576.htm > > Point Number 42: " Finally, the Commission directs Canadian carriers > to (i) modify the terms and conditions specified in tariffs (for > regulated services) and terms of service (for forborne services) _*to > remove any mention of 30-day (or similar) cancellation policies, and > (ii) issue any revisions no later than 23 January 2015.*_ " > > There is enough wealth and enough opportunities for everyone on earth. > Competition promotes innovation and quality services. > So go out there and acquire your new customer with confidence. > CRTC is on your side. > > So Phil, per your quote, " Would love to see some answers on this, like > all businesses everything should be contract free :) customers should stay > with you because they like you not because there boxed in. " -- Yes, all > services should be contract free, empowering the end user. > That has been my moto and sales approach for the past 10+ years and the > consumers love it. But you already knew that because that's your > philosophy too! :) > > Cheers! > Reza. > > -- > FOUNDER & SR. TELECOM ANALYST > VOIPERNETICS COMMUNICATIONS > TEL: 647-847-2287 x2016 > > > Philip Mullis wrote on 6/19/2015 2:47 PM: >> Hey folks, >> >> Wonder if anyone has experience or an answer to this issue, >> >> Bell has an auto renew in most of there contracts for 3 year periods, >> I have many new customers that keep porting to me but getting bitten >> by there bell renewal clause. >> >> Im hearing such tales as just by paying there last invoice in there >> term schedule, that bell accepts that as a clause for a full >> automatically 3 years renewal again. >> >> Has anyone got experience in trouncing these shitty ass business >> practices? >> >> I know the crtc slaped mobile carriers a year so ago with now the 2 >> year max contract terms. >> >> Would love to see some answers on this, like all businesses >> everything should be contract free :) customers should stay with you >> because they like you not because there boxed in. >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: biz-unsubscr...@taug.ca For additional commands, e-mail: biz-h...@taug.ca
