Would you also be able to fix up the documentation out there that's pointing at basic-card? A few places I see at a glance are MDN <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Payment_Request_API>, WebFundementals <https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/payments/merchant-guide/deep-dive-into-payment-request>, Whatwebcando <https://whatwebcando.today/payments.html> , ayden.com <https://www.adyen.com/blog/online-payments-using-the-new-web-payment-apis> and samsung <https://developer.samsung.com/internet/android/web-payments-integration-guide.html>. It seems like with a few PRs and a bit of outreach, we can make sure that the API's canonical documentation points people in the right direction.
On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 9:28 PM Rouslan Solomakhin <[email protected]> wrote: > Sure, let's do 4 milestones. We can put the deprecation message in the > developer console in M96 and perform the removal in M100. > > On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 3:26 PM Mike West <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Ok. Does ~4-5 milestones (M100-101 sound good to you?) >> >> -mike >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 9:20 PM Rouslan Solomakhin <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> > a deprecation period before removal isn't an unreasonable path >>> forward. WDYT >>> >>> That sounds reasonable to us. We are planning a blog post, too, by the >>> way. >>> >>> (Responding on behalf of Stephen and Max because they happen to be both >>> OOO today.) >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 2:57 PM Mike West <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Given the UKM-driven manual analysis, I'm willing to believe that sites >>>> using this mechanism won't crumble if it's removed. That said, the >>>> deprecation in the spec that you pointed to above landed ~2 weeks ago. >>>> Perhaps it's reasonable to extend developers' ability to conduct >>>> transactions through this mechanism for a release or three before removing >>>> it, warning in the console about the deprecation, blog posting, etc. >>>> >>>> Perhaps I'm being unreasonably cautious here (and I'm totally willing >>>> to hear reasons that might be the case!), but it seems to me that a >>>> deprecation period before removal isn't an unreasonable path forward. WDYT? >>>> >>>> -mike >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 5:46 PM Daniel Bratell <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> When I looked around to see what other methods were available, it >>>>> seemed to me like all documentation and explainers included basic-card as >>>>> the standard method, and few of them used anything else. I wonder if that >>>>> means that it's too early to deprecate before documentation and specs is >>>>> updated to suggest alternatives. >>>>> >>>>> /Daniel >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 2021-09-09 14:14, Stephen Mcgruer wrote: >>>>> >>>>> > Can you clarify what breakage may look like for sites that may rely >>>>> on it? >>>>> >>>>> If a site was *entirely* relying on basic-card to collect credit card >>>>> details from their user, it would be impossible for the user to complete >>>>> their checkout. So arguably 'site completely broken' from that perspective >>>>> (assuming buying a thing is the main user journey). >>>>> >>>>> However, such a site would also be broken on Firefox and Safari today >>>>> (unless serving user-agent specific code), and sites also tend to not rely >>>>> on just one approach to get paid. Sites will almost definitely have a >>>>> fallback mechanism, and it will likely be invisible to the user. For >>>>> example: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Site checks `if (window.PaymentRequest)` - passes in Chrome and >>>>> Safari, fails in Firefox. >>>>> 2. Site calls `new PaymentRequest([basic-card-data]).canMakePayment()` >>>>> (or `show()` directly) - passes in Chrome today, fails/throws in Safari. >>>>> 3. If either of #1 or #2 failed, render a fallback payment information >>>>> collection flow such as a HTML form. >>>>> >>>>> TL;DR - we expect very few to no sites to break due to this removal, >>>>> unless they're doing user-agent specific branching with no fallback >>>>> mechanisms for 'what if basic-card fails'. >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, 9 Sept 2021 at 08:03, Yoav Weiss <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Can you clarify what breakage may look like for sites that may rely >>>>>> on it? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tuesday, September 7, 2021 at 2:34:46 PM UTC+2 Stephen McGruer >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> > Any usecounter stats you can share? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Unfortunately no usecounters for two reasons: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1) Payment APIs in general have very low usage when compared to >>>>>>> 'page loads', because the most popular sites on the web aren't merchants >>>>>>> and so don't use them. For example, PaymentRequest.show is at 0.001 >>>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/2895>. >>>>>>> They're still very important, so we have to measure usage other ways :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2) In particular for basic-card, it's actually just a method-type of >>>>>>> PaymentRequest, so our top-level usecounters don't show it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We have internal stats that I can't share publicly due to >>>>>>> sensitivity (Googlers, feel free to ping me for a link), but I can share >>>>>>> that of transactions using PaymentRequest, basic-card is ~2% of all >>>>>>> transactions and <1% of completed transactions. So it's a very niche >>>>>>> feature that also performs poorly. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Max has also done an analysis of the top 10 sites from UKM data that >>>>>>> use basic-card. For 4, he couldn't get to the payments page or couldn't >>>>>>> get >>>>>>> it to trigger basic-card at all (possibly geographically gated), but for >>>>>>> the remaining 6 he confirmed that all 6 function properly in a version >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> Chrome that has basic-card disabled (falling back to the same behavior >>>>>>> they >>>>>>> use for Firefox + Safari). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, 6 Sept 2021 at 03:26, Yoav Weiss <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 4:25 PM Liquan (Max) Gu <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Contact emails [email protected], [email protected] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Specification https://www.w3.org/TR/payment-method-basic-card/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Summary >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Deprecate the "basic-card" payment method from PaymentRequest API. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Blink component Blink>Payments >>>>>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3EPayments> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Motivation >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> * Its usage is low and declining, underperforms other payment >>>>>>>>> methods in time-to-checkout and completion rate and does not have >>>>>>>>> improvement potential. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Any usecounter stats you can share? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> * W3C's interest in it has waned. 6 participants supported the >>>>>>>>> deprecation and no objection[1], and W3C has deprecated the spec[2]. >>>>>>>>> [1] >>>>>>>>> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-payments-wg/2021Aug/0038.html >>>>>>>>> [2] https://github.com/w3c/payment-method-basic-card/pull/90/files >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>>>>>>> * Chrome is the only implementer of basic-card, so the basic-card >>>>>>>>> removal from Chrome will increase interoperability. >>>>>>>>> * Since no other browser implements basic-card, web developers >>>>>>>>> already need workarounds to support other browsers. >>>>>>>>> * Whether basic-card is supported can be detected via >>>>>>>>> canMakePayment >>>>>>>>> <https://w3c.github.io/payment-request/#canmakepayment-method>. >>>>>>>>> Web developers normally use this to decide whether to fallback to >>>>>>>>> other methods. >>>>>>>>> * We have checked the few top sites via UKM - they all appear to >>>>>>>>> work with basic-card disabled because they fallback to other methods >>>>>>>>> to get >>>>>>>>> payment info. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Tracking bug https://crbug.com/1209835 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Estimated milestones M96 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5730051011117056 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>>> <https://www.chromestatus.com/>. >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAEWPi2sswphwqEnCGgwwNOr_F5j8V%3Dc5ZQ7Kz6h2gK%2Bki2A6aw%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAEWPi2sswphwqEnCGgwwNOr_F5j8V%3Dc5ZQ7Kz6h2gK%2Bki2A6aw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "payments-dev" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/payments-dev/CAL5BFfUaHsXJEEwN3JO2MSGw9WHsVt5nszPPscKh9mBrRt5U1g%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/payments-dev/CAL5BFfUaHsXJEEwN3JO2MSGw9WHsVt5nszPPscKh9mBrRt5U1g%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CADY3MafMcTV1GOHS62bHd%2BK%2BH1ftH0pBZL_1k77GWJqK8o9Uvg%40mail.gmail.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CADY3MafMcTV1GOHS62bHd%2BK%2BH1ftH0pBZL_1k77GWJqK8o9Uvg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/25df3c17-3cf3-695a-451f-ef1007581d53%40gmail.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/25df3c17-3cf3-695a-451f-ef1007581d53%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "payments-dev" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/payments-dev/CAKXHy%3De-AdXxo8CtZrSk-iPN05KmJ0_FWHOw5duyBXFGR58oGA%40mail.gmail.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/payments-dev/CAKXHy%3De-AdXxo8CtZrSk-iPN05KmJ0_FWHOw5duyBXFGR58oGA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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