Hey folks, We talked about this in the API owners meeting tonight, and I think folks are conceptually on board with this deprecation along the timeline we talked about above (4 milestones). That said, there's still practical concern that the messaging for developers currently doesn't match the requirements y'all are creating by removing `basic-card`, and we'd be much more comfortable moving forward if we had concrete docs to point developers to in any deprecation warning so they they have a clear migration path.
If you can land some documentation changes, I think you'll quickly get LGTMs for deprecation/removal. -mike On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 8:03 PM Daniel Bratell <[email protected]> wrote: > Good, because if not, I think it will leave the standard in a strange mess > where a majority of the documentation will use constructs that no longer > exists and that will make everyone unhappy. > > /Daniel > On 2021-09-09 22:22, Rouslan Solomakhin wrote: > > Yes, we absolutely can fixup the docs that we own and reach out to the > owners of the docs that we don't own ourselves. > > On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 4:21 PM Yoav Weiss <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Would you also be able to fix up the documentation out there that's >> pointing at basic-card? >> A few places I see at a glance are MDN >> <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Payment_Request_API>, >> WebFundementals >> <https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/payments/merchant-guide/deep-dive-into-payment-request>, >> Whatwebcando <https://whatwebcando.today/payments.html> , ayden.com >> <https://www.adyen.com/blog/online-payments-using-the-new-web-payment-apis> >> and samsung >> <https://developer.samsung.com/internet/android/web-payments-integration-guide.html>. >> It seems like with a few PRs and a bit of outreach, we can make sure that >> the API's canonical documentation points people in the right direction. >> >> On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 9:28 PM Rouslan Solomakhin <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Sure, let's do 4 milestones. We can put the deprecation message in the >>> developer console in M96 and perform the removal in M100. >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 3:26 PM Mike West <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Ok. Does ~4-5 milestones (M100-101 sound good to you?) >>>> >>>> -mike >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 9:20 PM Rouslan Solomakhin <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> > a deprecation period before removal isn't an unreasonable path >>>>> forward. WDYT >>>>> >>>>> That sounds reasonable to us. We are planning a blog post, too, by the >>>>> way. >>>>> >>>>> (Responding on behalf of Stephen and Max because they happen to be >>>>> both OOO today.) >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 2:57 PM Mike West <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Given the UKM-driven manual analysis, I'm willing to believe that >>>>>> sites using this mechanism won't crumble if it's removed. That said, the >>>>>> deprecation in the spec that you pointed to above landed ~2 weeks ago. >>>>>> Perhaps it's reasonable to extend developers' ability to conduct >>>>>> transactions through this mechanism for a release or three before >>>>>> removing >>>>>> it, warning in the console about the deprecation, blog posting, etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> Perhaps I'm being unreasonably cautious here (and I'm totally willing >>>>>> to hear reasons that might be the case!), but it seems to me that a >>>>>> deprecation period before removal isn't an unreasonable path forward. >>>>>> WDYT? >>>>>> >>>>>> -mike >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 5:46 PM Daniel Bratell <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> When I looked around to see what other methods were available, it >>>>>>> seemed to me like all documentation and explainers included basic-card >>>>>>> as >>>>>>> the standard method, and few of them used anything else. I wonder if >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> means that it's too early to deprecate before documentation and specs is >>>>>>> updated to suggest alternatives. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> /Daniel >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2021-09-09 14:14, Stephen Mcgruer wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > Can you clarify what breakage may look like for sites that may >>>>>>> rely on it? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If a site was *entirely* relying on basic-card to collect credit >>>>>>> card details from their user, it would be impossible for the user to >>>>>>> complete their checkout. So arguably 'site completely broken' from that >>>>>>> perspective (assuming buying a thing is the main user journey). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> However, such a site would also be broken on Firefox and Safari >>>>>>> today (unless serving user-agent specific code), and sites also tend to >>>>>>> not >>>>>>> rely on just one approach to get paid. Sites will almost definitely >>>>>>> have a >>>>>>> fallback mechanism, and it will likely be invisible to the user. For >>>>>>> example: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. Site checks `if (window.PaymentRequest)` - passes in Chrome and >>>>>>> Safari, fails in Firefox. >>>>>>> 2. Site calls `new >>>>>>> PaymentRequest([basic-card-data]).canMakePayment()` (or `show()` >>>>>>> directly) >>>>>>> - passes in Chrome today, fails/throws in Safari. >>>>>>> 3. If either of #1 or #2 failed, render a fallback payment >>>>>>> information collection flow such as a HTML form. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> TL;DR - we expect very few to no sites to break due to this removal, >>>>>>> unless they're doing user-agent specific branching with no fallback >>>>>>> mechanisms for 'what if basic-card fails'. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, 9 Sept 2021 at 08:03, Yoav Weiss <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Can you clarify what breakage may look like for sites that may rely >>>>>>>> on it? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, September 7, 2021 at 2:34:46 PM UTC+2 Stephen McGruer >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > Any usecounter stats you can share? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Unfortunately no usecounters for two reasons: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1) Payment APIs in general have very low usage when compared to >>>>>>>>> 'page loads', because the most popular sites on the web aren't >>>>>>>>> merchants >>>>>>>>> and so don't use them. For example, PaymentRequest.show is at >>>>>>>>> 0.001 >>>>>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/2895>. >>>>>>>>> They're still very important, so we have to measure usage other ways >>>>>>>>> :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2) In particular for basic-card, it's actually just a method-type >>>>>>>>> of PaymentRequest, so our top-level usecounters don't show it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We have internal stats that I can't share publicly due to >>>>>>>>> sensitivity (Googlers, feel free to ping me for a link), but I can >>>>>>>>> share >>>>>>>>> that of transactions using PaymentRequest, basic-card is ~2% of all >>>>>>>>> transactions and <1% of completed transactions. So it's a very niche >>>>>>>>> feature that also performs poorly. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Max has also done an analysis of the top 10 sites from UKM data >>>>>>>>> that use basic-card. For 4, he couldn't get to the payments page or >>>>>>>>> couldn't get it to trigger basic-card at all (possibly geographically >>>>>>>>> gated), but for the remaining 6 he confirmed that all 6 function >>>>>>>>> properly >>>>>>>>> in a version of Chrome that has basic-card disabled (falling back to >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> same behavior they use for Firefox + Safari). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, 6 Sept 2021 at 03:26, Yoav Weiss <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 4:25 PM Liquan (Max) Gu < >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Contact emails [email protected], [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Specification https://www.w3.org/TR/payment-method-basic-card/ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Summary >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Deprecate the "basic-card" payment method from PaymentRequest >>>>>>>>>>> API. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Blink component Blink>Payments >>>>>>>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3EPayments> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Motivation >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> * Its usage is low and declining, underperforms other payment >>>>>>>>>>> methods in time-to-checkout and completion rate and does not have >>>>>>>>>>> improvement potential. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Any usecounter stats you can share? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> * W3C's interest in it has waned. 6 participants supported the >>>>>>>>>>> deprecation and no objection[1], and W3C has deprecated the >>>>>>>>>>> spec[2]. [1] >>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-payments-wg/2021Aug/0038.html >>>>>>>>>>> [2] >>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/w3c/payment-method-basic-card/pull/90/files >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>>>>>>>>> * Chrome is the only implementer of basic-card, so the >>>>>>>>>>> basic-card removal from Chrome will increase interoperability. >>>>>>>>>>> * Since no other browser implements basic-card, web developers >>>>>>>>>>> already need workarounds to support other browsers. >>>>>>>>>>> * Whether basic-card is supported can be detected via >>>>>>>>>>> canMakePayment >>>>>>>>>>> <https://w3c.github.io/payment-request/#canmakepayment-method>. >>>>>>>>>>> Web developers normally use this to decide whether to fallback to >>>>>>>>>>> other methods. >>>>>>>>>>> * We have checked the few top sites via UKM - they all appear >>>>>>>>>>> to work with basic-card disabled because they fallback to other >>>>>>>>>>> methods to >>>>>>>>>>> get payment info. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Tracking bug https://crbug.com/1209835 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Estimated milestones M96 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5730051011117056 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.chromestatus.com/>. >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAEWPi2sswphwqEnCGgwwNOr_F5j8V%3Dc5ZQ7Kz6h2gK%2Bki2A6aw%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAEWPi2sswphwqEnCGgwwNOr_F5j8V%3Dc5ZQ7Kz6h2gK%2Bki2A6aw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>> Groups "payments-dev" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/payments-dev/CAL5BFfUaHsXJEEwN3JO2MSGw9WHsVt5nszPPscKh9mBrRt5U1g%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/payments-dev/CAL5BFfUaHsXJEEwN3JO2MSGw9WHsVt5nszPPscKh9mBrRt5U1g%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CADY3MafMcTV1GOHS62bHd%2BK%2BH1ftH0pBZL_1k77GWJqK8o9Uvg%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CADY3MafMcTV1GOHS62bHd%2BK%2BH1ftH0pBZL_1k77GWJqK8o9Uvg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/25df3c17-3cf3-695a-451f-ef1007581d53%40gmail.com >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/25df3c17-3cf3-695a-451f-ef1007581d53%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "payments-dev" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/payments-dev/CAKXHy%3De-AdXxo8CtZrSk-iPN05KmJ0_FWHOw5duyBXFGR58oGA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/payments-dev/CAKXHy%3De-AdXxo8CtZrSk-iPN05KmJ0_FWHOw5duyBXFGR58oGA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAKXHy%3DeeQtgdutefSN8Aj8DseWrb%3DK1Q7j1ceFWYmCE2g5H0nQ%40mail.gmail.com.
