LGTM to experiment M109-M114 On Mon, Oct 31, 2022 at 4:02 PM Victor Tan <victor...@chromium.org> wrote:
> Yeap, M109 to M104 inclusive is enough for this OT. > > Bests, > Victor > > On Mon, Oct 31, 2022 at 10:58 AM Yoav Weiss <yoavwe...@chromium.org> > wrote: > >> Even though this is not a typical OT, I don't think it should go beyond >> the current policy of 6 milestone before showing significant progress >> towards shipping. >> Would M109 to M114 (inclusive) be enough? >> >> On Mon, Oct 31, 2022 at 3:36 PM Victor Tan <victor...@chromium.org> >> wrote: >> >>> Sorry for the unclear end milestone, we would like to experiment from >>> M109 to M115. >>> >>> Bests, >>> Victor >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 31, 2022 at 10:34 AM Yoav Weiss <yoavwe...@chromium.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> When do you expect the experiment to end? >>>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 31, 2022 at 3:32 PM Victor Tan <victor...@chromium.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> We are expected to start in M109 Beta until 2023 Q2. We will document >>>>> more in the web blog post. >>>>> >>>>> Bests, >>>>> Victor >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Oct 31, 2022 at 10:12 AM Yoav Weiss <yoavwe...@chromium.org> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> That's fair. What is the experiment's timeline? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Oct 31, 2022 at 3:09 PM Victor Tan <victor...@chromium.org> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> > How would the OT work for the Accept-Language values of the >>>>>>> very-first request sent to the origin? >>>>>>> As described in the implementation doc >>>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RkPDf7DNtcOj4KXeW8wNCuYfto-drnGYST_NvZe3GoY/edit#bookmark=id.ob15kaq2dmkv>, >>>>>>> there are some limitations for the current OT architecture, we can't >>>>>>> validate the response OT token before we send the request. >>>>>>> For the very first request, we are still sending the full >>>>>>> Accept-Language user's list, after we validate the response, all >>>>>>> subsequent >>>>>>> requests start to send a reduced Accept-Language header. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bests, >>>>>>> Victor >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 31, 2022 at 8:18 AM Yoav Weiss <yoavwe...@chromium.org> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> How would the OT work for the Accept-Language values of the >>>>>>>> very-first request sent to the origin? Or are we expecting this >>>>>>>> request to >>>>>>>> send higher entropy, but not to hide potential breakage with later >>>>>>>> requests >>>>>>>> sending lower entropy? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 7:57 PM Victor Tan <victor...@chromium.org> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Contact emails >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> victor...@chromium.org, miketa...@chromium.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Explainer >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://github.com/Tanych/accept-language >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Specification >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Variants header: >>>>>>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-variants-06 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Summary >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We want to reduce the amount of information the Accept-Language >>>>>>>>> header exposes in HTTP requests and JS interface navigator.languages. >>>>>>>>> Instead of sending all user’s Accept-Language, we only send the >>>>>>>>> user’s most >>>>>>>>> preferred language after language negotiation in the Accept-Language >>>>>>>>> header. navigator.languages returns the same value as >>>>>>>>> navigator.language >>>>>>>>> during this experiment. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We would like to run an origin trial for sites to opt into the >>>>>>>>> Reduce Accept-Language origin trial to proactively test for breakage. >>>>>>>>> See >>>>>>>>> below for more details. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Implementation Doc >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RkPDf7DNtcOj4KXeW8wNCuYfto-drnGYST_NvZe3GoY >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Blink component >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Privacy>Fingerprinting >>>>>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Privacy%3EFingerprinting> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Risks >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The compatibility risk is low since we're planning to reduce the >>>>>>>>> amount of information in the Accept-Language header and >>>>>>>>> navigator.languages, rather than remove the header or change value >>>>>>>>> format >>>>>>>>> in the header. Most existing Accept-Language detection code should >>>>>>>>> continue >>>>>>>>> to work. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As for interoperability, no signal for other vendors. For >>>>>>>>> multilingual sites to rely on the Accept-Language header, developers >>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>> need to depend on a user's full Accept-Language list for some >>>>>>>>> browsers and >>>>>>>>> a primary user's Accept-Language for others. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Another signal is that the Chrome incognito model already reduced >>>>>>>>> the Accept-Language header and JS interface navigator.languages to one >>>>>>>>> language. The Accept-Language header can potentially expand to two if >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> first Accept-Language includes a region code, like en-US, the reduced >>>>>>>>> Accept-Language header will be en-US,en;q=0.9. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Experiment Summary >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The experiment is going to be a little different from a normal >>>>>>>>> Origin Trial. The goal is enabling developers to test and ensure >>>>>>>>> compatibility with our proposed changes. It’s incredibly important we >>>>>>>>> give >>>>>>>>> developers any chance to test systems at every level since this change >>>>>>>>> represents vast dependencies on the introduced headers. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As for enabling with the origin trial itself, there will be two >>>>>>>>> components controlled by the same origin trial: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Reducing the information in navigator.languages if the origin >>>>>>>>> trial enabled. >>>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The Accept-Language HTTP request header contains the user’s >>>>>>>>> primary preferred language, this can change if we detect a more >>>>>>>>> preferred >>>>>>>>> language during the language negotiation process. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Because of the experimental nature of reducing Accept-Language, a >>>>>>>>> valid origin token must be sent in the response header by origins >>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>> opt-in the origin trial. Also two new headers Variants >>>>>>>>> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-variants-06#section-2> >>>>>>>>> (indicating sites supporting languages) accept-language and >>>>>>>>> Content-Language <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc3282> >>>>>>>>> need to be sent in the response header in order to make the language >>>>>>>>> negotiation to work correctly. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Please see the design and implementation document >>>>>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RkPDf7DNtcOj4KXeW8wNCuYfto-drnGYST_NvZe3GoY/edit#heading=h.b6kmd248xsy4>for >>>>>>>>> more information. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Experiment Goals >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The goal of this origin trial is to enable developers to test how >>>>>>>>> reducing the Accept-Language request header and the JS getter >>>>>>>>> navigator.languages will affect their systems, especially to >>>>>>>>> understand the >>>>>>>>> user cases on navigator.languages. We hope this can provide >>>>>>>>> sufficient time >>>>>>>>> for developers to test. We can validate our current plans for reducing >>>>>>>>> Accept-Language and safely roll out them to the web based on their >>>>>>>>> feedback. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We will be relying heavily on user and developer feedback to >>>>>>>>> identify where breakage occurs, or where use cases are not accounted >>>>>>>>> for, >>>>>>>>> especially for multilingual sites depending on the Accept-Language >>>>>>>>> header, >>>>>>>>> and navigator.languages. We will create a GitHub repository and a >>>>>>>>> public >>>>>>>>> mailing list for gathering feedback. When the origin trial is ready, >>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>> plan to publish developer guidance on how to enroll and provide >>>>>>>>> feedback. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Experiment Risks >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There are some risks, as many multilingual sites have come to rely >>>>>>>>> on the value in Accept-Language header and JS interfaces >>>>>>>>> navigator.languages to send the right representation pages to the >>>>>>>>> user. >>>>>>>>> Site breakage can take many forms, both obvious and non-obvious. >>>>>>>>> However, >>>>>>>>> since sites are in control of the Origin-Trial, Variants and >>>>>>>>> Content-Language headers, a site can quickly opt out of the >>>>>>>>> experiment when >>>>>>>>> breakage is encountered. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms >>>>>>>>> (Windows, Mac, Linux, Chrome OS, Android, and Android WebView)? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> No (All but WebView) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>>>>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md> >>>>>>>>> ? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> No (We fully test in browser_tests, WPT has limits to cover all >>>>>>>>> the test cases in Accept-Language header). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Flag name >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ReduceAcceptLanguageOriginTrial >>>>>>>>> Tracking bug >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1306905 >>>>>>>>> Launch bug >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1307484 >>>>>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5188040623390720 >>>>>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/feature/5188040623390720#details> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAJh4P7EvtPH_NQX_mJevEXu2fbePPQ7aYhfdBd%2BYB1J-5cn74g%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAJh4P7EvtPH_NQX_mJevEXu2fbePPQ7aYhfdBd%2BYB1J-5cn74g%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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