I';ve been trying to get a feel for GUIs for years. Sighted colleagues are no help. They only tell me how they use the mouse. They won't use a keyboard shourcut even when it is much simpler. For example, they will scroll down a long document instead of using ctrl+f to find something. i've tried unsuccessfully tpo find a Jaws trainer. After I reinstalled Windows 7 recently Jaws wouldn't install. I'm now using NVDA and I don't think I'll go back to Jaws.
John On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 09:57:25AM -0500, Devin Prater wrote: > I, being 22 already, was taught the Windows GUI early on, in around middle > school. Everyone used Windows XP back then, and no one used anything else. So > it was a shock when I got a laptop and it ran Vista. Everyone used > Window-eyes then too, so you can see how secluded I was from even other > screen readers. At the school for the blind I attended, back then it was > Window-eyes and Zoomtext, and a few high schoolers with fancy braille notes > that could be carried everywhere and could talk, without even needing to be > plugged into a computer. I learned typing from a teacher that was good at the > old tech, but wasn’t prepared for the exponential leaps forward in software > and UI design. She taught us to use the basics of Microsoft word, tab around > the system, and to let the half-sighted users do the Microsoft Access > designer stuff. Later on, I learned a little of the Jaws cursor stuff, but > the Windows screen readers have you operate them, more or less, than > operating the system itself, and reporting the output. macOS does just about > the same thing, with voiceover functions for things like drag and drop, > viewing open applications, Windows, and things like that. I’ve recently > learned to use Linux, Arch to be exact, with BRLTTY, Speakup in pure console > if needed, and Emacspeak, even though the eSpeak driver is severely outdated > so that aural-highlighting and such don’t work. I’ve even managed to sign up > to the SDF network, so we’ll see where that goes, although the games seem to > be just ASCII art. Funny how people seem to need pictures, even in text > interfaces. > Sent from my Mac. > > Devin Prater > [email protected] > > > > > On Jul 17, 2016, at 5:38 AM, Sam Hartman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > John's comment about learning GUIs and not initially being good with > > them was interesting to me. I thought back to my initial experience > > with GUI environments, and realized that if it weren't for some really > > great work, I would have found GUIs really hard to approach. > > > > I'm curious, especially among those who do find GUIs easy to use, how > > you learned to use them? > > > > What resources did you use? Are there any that are still available? > > > > For me, I think the following factors contributed: > > > > * Reading the Turbo Pascal 5.5 and 6.0 documentation on their text-based > > GUI environment. > > > > * Reading the Desqview developer documentation on Window layout. > > > > * Reading the discussion of GUI design in the Borland C++ support for > > Windows 3.1. > > > > Some of the above dealt with text-mode GUIs, but all provided good > > fundamentals in dialogue boxes, how to do layout, and that sort of > > thing. > > The documentation was in text for the most part rather than being filled > > with too many pictures. The documentation was focused for people > > writing GUIs so it had a lot of explanation. > > That kind of gave me a good grounding in what to expect. > > > > But the real breakthrough happened when I had to use a Mac in the early > > 1990's--probably around System 7. > > There was a screen reader made by the same folks who made After Dark > > (the screen saver)--Berkeley Systems? Anyway, it came with a tape and a > > few braille sample screen layouts. It went through Mac UI > > design--talking about what Apple recommended, what it looked like to a > > sighted person, and then walked you through all the elements of the > > braille layouts they included. > > > > There product was both great and horrible. It was great in that it gave > > you access to the GUI at a level very similar to a sighted person. You > > really did have to drag things around with the (virutal--keyboard > > controlled) mouse for most operations. It was slow, but you really got > > a feel for what was going on. Also, because it was so close to the > > actual GUI, asking for help was easy. > > > > Then around 1995, I ended up having to use JAWS for Windows. Its > > documentation and explanation of Windows UI was sufficient already being > > familiar with the Mac to be able to follow what was going on. However, > > without that earlier work I doubt I would have been able to follow a > > GUI. > > > > Modern screen readers are both easier and more frustrating. In > > particular, web browsers and office programs hide a lot of the GUI from > > the blind user. (This is more true on Linux and Mac that Windows) > > In particular, I can't really tell in a web browser whether some element > > is to the left or right of another element or above or below. I can > > tell whether one element is logically before or after another. In an > > office program, I lost access to the ruler sometime in the 1990's, and > > haven't regained all the things I could do with that since. > > > > I used to be able to do relatively competent layout of > > documents--tables, figures, graphs, the like. I'd need my work checked, > > but I understood what was going on and was better at layout that some of > > my sighted peers. > > Sadly, as the screen readers have been getting better at presenting > > logical information, it's harder to do that. I don't think I could > > produce great work in Libreoffice. > > > > That said, I rarely need to worry about scroll bars, what's visible on > > the screen or the like. I don't need to worry much about how wide my > > windows are, or where they are positioned. > > > > I have no idea how I'd teach a blind users about GUIs today; I don't > > know where the modern versions of those braille layouts and the great > > explanatory tape are. > > > > I'd love to hear others' stories. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Blinux-list mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > -- John J. Boyer; President, AbilitiesSoft, Inc. Email: [email protected] Website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org Status: 501(C)(3) Nonprofit Location: Madison, Wisconsin USA Mission: To develop softwares and provide STEM services for people with disabilities which are available at no cost. _______________________________________________ Blinux-list mailing list [email protected] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
