Thanks a bunch Kitt. I appreciate your feedback. I came to the same conclusion after reading a bunch of posts on different websites. The old controller will do just fine. I called it a PID simply because the tech support lady at WLL called it a PID. I understand what you're saying about the difference. She also told me the old controller was only $50 and when I ordered it from the 3rd party vendor she told me to use, it was $83. So everyone is sticking it to us. Going to take a week to get here. On the latest post about controllers, it was mentioned that these controllers are fixable? So it's possible that I could repair it by cleaning contacts inside it? I had just assumed it was an enclosed black box of integrated circuits. Thanks again, Jim
On Thursday, December 6, 2012 1:36:24 PM UTC-5, KittJ wrote: > > I sense a little confusion here. Your B II does not have a PID unless > someone modified the stock machine. That sounds unlikely from the text of > your post. > > As the owner of the second Brewtus to be converted to a true PID (with the > help of Sean O'Neil, the guy who did the first one ... I mostly was the > go-fer), and a contributor to the extensive post conversion performance > data, I would advise you that you should stick with the old controller on > this machine. > > If you want to spend the money to upgrade because you want the fun of a > fancier toy, then fix this one, sell it and buy a B4-R on sale at Christmas > or inventory reduction price. Your confidence that the machine is not a > barrier will rise, ... but I doubt that you will consistently taste any > difference beneath the variance you get from age and technique. > > Our experince was that the PID did not appreciably change the taste in the > cup, it just improved our consistency a hair because the already tight band > of dispensing temperature was tightened beyond the ability of most people > to taste differences. (All three of us were certified judges for the US > Barista Championships and had been trained to be very very discriminating.) > > When we modified the third machine, Abe Carmelli also added a rotary pump > and in retrospect thought it added more benefit than the PID system. But > the performance of your stock machine is already more consistent than most > people can taste. Or as Ken Krone summed up his morning routine with the > Brewtus on one of the forums, "Ho hum, another perfect cup of espresso." > > A little more not very technical background: > > A PID controller (proportional–integral–derivative controller) is a type > of loop feedback mechanism that tracks three variables to LEARN how to keep > the temperature very close to the target ... Perhaps 2 tenths of a degree, > not 7 degrees. Part of its performance is dictated by the speed and > sensitivity of the temperature probe. > > When the original B1 was introduced, it had one of the first easily > adjustable brew boiler controls ... and it was a digital. Wow, it looked > just like the readout on the home installed PID controllers on Silvia's > that were in vogue. The distributor and the early discussions referred to > the B1 as a PID machine because it looked like those. Eventually, someone > with appropriate training pointed out that there was no PID involved ... It > was a thermostat just like the one on the wall of you house. > > The spanish designers had structured a water delivery system that had the > heater kick on after the temperature (as read by a not very sensitive probe > at a position near the heating element) fell about 7 degrees F, if I recall > correctly. And it would stay on until the temperature reached the "turn it > off" temperature 3 degrees above target. The read-out showed the actual > temperature with an adjustment (six degrees, called the offset) to allow > for how much the water would cool while flowing through the room > temperature pipes from the boiler to the coffee puck. (When the > temperature was above the target temperature, the controller just shows the > target temp.) By luck and design, this system actually produces an > incredibly stable dispensing temperature in a very narrow band for about > six shots in a row, not 7 degree temperature swings at the group head. > This performance is why many reviewers raved about the machine. It was > affordable and matched the performance of the top multi-group commercial > machines for the volumes needed at home. > > A true PID didn't appear on the stock Brewtus until the B3. Modifying a > B1 or B2 to be operated by a PID is not the quick plug and play project > that a controller replacement will be. Keep it simple and concentrate on > your espresso. > > KittJ > Sent from my crystal radio > > On Dec 4, 2012, at 6:37 PM, JimR <[email protected] <javascript:>> wrote: > > my 8 year old B2. > > WLL, they told me it's either the Pstat valve or the PID controller. > to replace the PID with the same unit is about $50 vs. $235 for the > newer version. > > Have you guys REALLY noticed a significant improvement in your shots for > that extra $185??? > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Brewtus" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/brewtus/-/hNmGyDSRg98J. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus?hl=en.
