> IIRC, and I believe I do so quite correctly since I remember voicing my objection to his attitude
> on the list, Jeroen was the very first >person to mention nuking Afghanistan. He wasn't advocating
> that we do so, but instead posted that he assumed that the US would blame, then nuke Afghanistan
> for the attacks. He not only decided that it was a fait accompli, but denounced us for even considering
> it. (At the time, not a single US gov't source had mentioned the use of *any* weapons of mass
> destruction in any way other than to mention that they were *not* being considered.) When I posted
> an objection to Jeroen's attitude and then asked him for proof (in the form of military or gov't sources)
> that we were seriously considering nuking Afghanistan as a retaliation, he not only didn't and couldn't
> provide any, but refused to apologize. He cited past US history as a "justification" for making wild
> accusations about us on the list and never once apologized for his obvious error. So, I think the
> pig-headedness that you're commending him for is seriously misplaced, at least on the nuclear front.
You're right and I do remember this. However, there have been posts suggesting that the US would be perfectly
justified to do so.
If the list server was attacked from that ISP, then Nick should take whatever steps he feels are needed.I agree with this. I don't think *any* moderation should be indefinite or for an undefined time-frame. I'mNow I'm back, and the dynamics have changed. I am not in a position to tell anyone what to do, but I can say what I believe and this is it. We have a problem which needs to be resolved. Kicking Jeroen out is not a solution which I believe will be beneficial to the list.
disturbed by his being blocked at chello.nl, but I'm more disturbed that the list server was attacked from
that isp. As I pointed out yesterday, this block is limited to the chello servers. He can still post to the
list from work, using his mindef.nl address.
I'm going to mind my own business on that one since I consider this to be between Nick and Jeroen. I'd
rather talk about what's happening on-list.
Perhaps we need to talk about whether one member be allowed to deliberately cause this much chaosJeroen hasn't been kicked out, but anybody with eyes and a brain to read can figure out where this is headed.
without any consequences being considered or objections being raised? I do think this needs to be
resolved, but should we simply ignore the threats and attacks he's making?
By the way, no one has "kicked Jeroen out". He has been asked to change behavior and cease actions
that would have been the result of a complete, not temporary ban on many other listservs. AFAIK, he
has an open-ended invitation from Nick and Julia to come back when he is willing to stop attacking people.
Since he refuses to change his behavior and has in fact been escalating his attacks against Brin-L members,
it's listowners and server privately and publicly, you might say he is trying to remove *himself* from the list.
I get the feeling that most of us are past trying to find a solution and are resolved to sticking to their guns as
they hold the Truth (TM).
If you didn't see Brin-L.com during the last couple of weeks of November, I have the site's pages saved onActually I haven't seen them, I only know what has been posted on-list, and some of that I haven't had the
my home hard drive and can send them to you offlist if you want. The threats Jeroen made were quite disturbing.
Jon
patience to read. I just feel that the discussion is getting nowhere. What is our goal here? If we want this
settled, we need to do more than just say who's right and who's wrong. Moderating Jeroen shields the rest
of us from the symptoms of the problem, but it isn't a cure. As a first step, it has its merits, but we need to
be going somewhere with this.
Jean-Louis
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