----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Warren Ockrassa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: "God Is With Us" L3


> Let's see. For starters, don't let old hawks like Rummy and Cheney grab
> the reins. Um, don't assume that US forces will be welcomed by the
> natives. Never assume you've got a situation in hand before you've
> completely controlled a territory. Don't EVER assume the entire world
> wants to be just like the US. Never try to mix conquest with parsimony.
> That's a start, I think. I find it surprising you've overlooked the
> above; to me it's glaringly obvious.

But, the question is why it is glaringly obvious to you and not the
professionals who are working in the fields of political science and
history. Given Gautam's degree, I think we can assume that he is reasonably
familiar with the literature.  Even from what I've read, and from what I've
seen, its much more complicated than you indicate..

And going through your points, I'm not sure how many of them could possibly
be lessons from Viet Nam.  For example, how could one call Robert McNamara
an old war dog? He was  44 when he took the job of secretary of Defense,
having spent his working life as a professional manager.  The context of
Viet Nam must be the proxy war with the Soviet Union, and the view that
they were trying to win through the sponsorship of "wars of national
liberation."  So, I cannot see why you seem to assume that it was about
conquest.  I also don't see why you assume that the US thought everyone
would love us automatically.

The  tendency to believe that one has found simple, easy solutions to
problems that very intelligent people in the field all miss is one that I
have difficulty with.  It's not that I always believe the consensus is
right.  There are times when I've gone another way, and then had people
following me a few years later.  But, as a scientist about 30 years older
than me told me "the people who came before you weren't stupid."  If you
solution assumes they are idiots, you, not they, are probably missing
something.  If, on the other hand, it's a genuine innovation, or is the
result of the application of newly available technology, then you may be on
to something.

I've found that to be pretty valid over the years.  Obviously, history and
political science are not physics, but I think that real scholarship is
possible.  So, when Gautam indicates that there is a wide group of scholars
who agree that the "lessons from Viet Nam" are not trivial to determine,
then one should come up with strong arguments for why the generally agreed
upon facts really aren't as they seem.  For example, in what sense was
Robert McNamara an "old war dog."  Why can we ignore the Cold War framework
for 'Nam, and why was it a war of conquest?

Dan M.


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