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Reply-To: britdisc@near.me.uk
To: britdisc@near.me.uk
Subject: BritDisc Digest, Vol 24, Issue 30
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 16:17:26 +0100
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Today's Topics:
1. RE: the tour - discuss (Tom Russell)
2. RE: Seedings (Ben Heywood)
3. Re: the tour - discuss ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
4. Seriously... (Andrew Godber)
5. Re: Re: the tour - discuss (Jack)
6. RE: the tour - discuss (Daniel Dui)
7. RE: the tour - discuss (Philip Richardson)
8. RE: Seriously... (Retter, Wayne (Redhill))
9. Tour Standings (Andrew Godber)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 13:35:32 +0100
From: "Tom Russell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [BD] the tour - discuss
To: <britdisc@near.me.uk>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
There are plenty of mixed teams out there, infact in my experience the
majority of teams are mixed, but lots of these actually end up entering
the Open tour instead of the Mixed Tour, or just entering local
tournaments.
And I think that the reason for this may be that almost all teams have
more men than women, hence they struggle to comply with the even ratio
of men and women required in Mixed Tour. The better teams will
inevitably succeed in attracting enough women to play for them, wheras
teams towards the lower end of the Mixed Tour are often struggling to
get enough girls. You only have to look at the mails to Brit-Disc
earlier this week as evidence of this.
So how about changing the male:female ratio in Mixed Tour to 4:3 or 5:2
(still chosen by the side on O), instead of 4:3 or 3:4 as it is now? In
my experience, it is fairly rare that the 4 girls option is actually
taken.
I think that this would encourage many more teams which are essentially
mixed to enter the mixed tour, rather than competing towards the lower
end of the open tour.
I'm obviously speaking from the perspective of a team that is currently
competing at the lower end of the Mixed Tour, but would be interested to
hear from teams competing at the top of it: do you genuinely have an
even split of men and women wanting to play or would a move like this
suit you too?
Tom
Thundering Herd
Tom Russell
dunnhumby
T: +44 (0)20 8832 9222
F: +44 (0)20 8832 9333
www.dunnhumby.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Anna Shipman
Sent: 18 August 2005 12:21
To: britdisc@near.me.uk
Subject: Re: [BD] the tour - discuss
>Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 09:49:04 +0100
>From: Sion Scone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [BD] the tour - discuss
>
>Also - as much as I hate to say it - people don't take mixed as
>seriously (generally anyway). There are only a few clubs that I can
>think of that train specifically for the mixed season; the vast
>majority of mixed teams are just pickup combos. I'd like to see loads
>of dedicated mixed teams but in reality it takes second place to
>Open/Womens for 90% of the population. So using Mixed as a pre-season
>for Open / Womens would seem to be a sensible, pragmatic option.
>
So if I'm reading this correctly, you're saying "Mixed is already
sidelined,
let's just admit that that's what's going on & sideline it totally"? I
think
you're probably right that Mixed is not important to the majority (of
BritDisc readers at least), but I'm not sure that's quite the right
attitude
to take. As one of the few teams that are only interested in playing
Mixed
I'd much rather see a follow up to your comment:
>I'd like to see loads
>of dedicated mixed teams
Great! Let's think about how we can encourage that, rather than make it
more
unlikely!
Whoever these few teams are, I haven't heard many of them speak up on
BritDisc. I'm guessing that lots of them, maybe less serious teams as
you
point out, aren't on BritDisc or don't want to shout about it. Dave's
idea
of contacting each team directly rather than a "who can shout loudest"
competition on BritDisc is a good way to give the teams who might feel
their
opinion is not as important a chance to speak up. But since there is
going
to be a "who can shout the loudest" competition anyway, please can we
dedicate a little bit of shouting to thinking of whether there's a way
we
can encourage this less popular, less dedicated, but much more
attractive to
some players (like newer players? the ones we want?) part of ultimate?
It's
great that the Women's tour is really taking off, can we big up Mixed as
well?
Anna
SnS - my views not my team's and not intended to cause offence etc etc
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 13:49:55 +0100
From: "Ben Heywood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [BD] RE: Seedings
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], britdisc@near.me.uk
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>Mate you said:
>
>"-For everyone else, there's a chance to get your correct seeding early
>in
>the season, and still play four high intensity events.
>I might be wrong, but I seem to remember Discuits not getting promoted
>until B-tour 2, even though they went on to finish as high as 9th the
>other week."
>
>Yes you are right but that wasn't a seeding issue. We beat them in the
>quarter finals and different seeding wouldn't have changed that. It also
>wasn't the case that us and them were the 2 best teams in the B-Tour
>because we lost to Bristol 2 in the final (who incidentally would also
>have beaten Discuits)
Didn't mean to offend - I didn't mean getting the seeding right in the
sense
that you seem to be meaning - I just meant deciding which teams should play
tour A and which Tour B in a fairer way before the real season starts.
What I'm saying is that you, Bristol, discuits and Paddy (and other teams
I've forgotten no doubt) should perhaps all have been in tour A at tour 1,
and that a pre-tour tournament, with 8 A-tour places up for grabs, would be
a better plan than starting from last year's nationals position,
particularly if there are only 3 tours.
I'll forward this to BD (hope that's OK with you) in case anyone else
misunderstood me. I'm not at my most lucid today...
Apologies,
Benji
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 14:03:30 +0100
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [BD] Re: the tour - discuss
To: "Tom Russell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: britdisc@near.me.uk
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"
> So how about changing the male:female ratio in Mixed Tour to 4:3 or 5:2
> (still chosen by the side on O), instead of 4:3 or 3:4 as it is now? In
> my experience, it is fairly rare that the 4 girls option is actually
> taken.
People are free to run there own events at whatever ratio they want. The
official UKUA events will always be 4:3 unless there is a change in the
WFDF
rules.
Jaimie
Tom Russell writes:
> There are plenty of mixed teams out there, infact in my experience the
> majority of teams are mixed, but lots of these actually end up entering
> the Open tour instead of the Mixed Tour, or just entering local
> tournaments.
>
> And I think that the reason for this may be that almost all teams have
> more men than women, hence they struggle to comply with the even ratio
> of men and women required in Mixed Tour. The better teams will
> inevitably succeed in attracting enough women to play for them, wheras
> teams towards the lower end of the Mixed Tour are often struggling to
> get enough girls. You only have to look at the mails to Brit-Disc
> earlier this week as evidence of this.
>
> So how about changing the male:female ratio in Mixed Tour to 4:3 or 5:2
> (still chosen by the side on O), instead of 4:3 or 3:4 as it is now? In
> my experience, it is fairly rare that the 4 girls option is actually
> taken.
>
> I think that this would encourage many more teams which are essentially
> mixed to enter the mixed tour, rather than competing towards the lower
> end of the open tour.
>
> I'm obviously speaking from the perspective of a team that is currently
> competing at the lower end of the Mixed Tour, but would be interested to
> hear from teams competing at the top of it: do you genuinely have an
> even split of men and women wanting to play or would a move like this
> suit you too?
>
>
> Tom
> Thundering Herd
>
>
>
>
>
> Tom Russell
> dunnhumby
>
> T: +44 (0)20 8832 9222
> F: +44 (0)20 8832 9333
> www.dunnhumby.com
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 14:16:24 +0100
From: "Andrew Godber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [BD] Seriously...
To: <britdisc@near.me.uk>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
.....B tour results anyone? Seeing as teams were supposed to have
entered for nationals by yesterday, and the top 32 rankings can't even
be worked out yet?
As far as I can gather from speaking to friends, it was along the lines
of:
1. Devon 1
2. BPF 2
3. Lucky Huckers
4. Cardiff
5
6
7
8
9. Boogie Knights
10
11
12 Lords of the Ring
13
14 Sheffield Steal 2
15
16. UTB 1 who were mysteriously on the schedule for Colchester, despite
playing in Mansfield. Unfortunately, we lost all our games in both
events.
Andy
UTB
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 14:21:17 +0100
From: Jack <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [BD] Re: the tour - discuss
To: brit disc <britdisc@near.me.uk>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>> In my experience, it is fairly rare that the 4 girls option is
>> actually
>> taken.
>>
You can't have played against Bristol!
We know that our women are our best asset and will usually play 4
girls whenever we start on O, because it usually results in a score
for us.
Jack
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 06:21:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Daniel Dui <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [BD] the tour - discuss
To: britdisc@near.me.uk
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
BD
Having too few women is the obvious problem for most
mixed teams. The obvious solution is to actively
promote mixed ultimate and to recruit more women.
How is this being done in other countries and what's
working?
Switching from 3/4 to 2/5 might allow more of the
current teams to participate in mixed events, but it
would not encourage them to recruit more women.
-d
____________________________________________________________
Daniel Dui [EMAIL PROTECTED]
skype: danieldui
BULAFlow, Israel, 5-9 October 2005
Beach Ultimate and Freestyle Event
http://beachultimate.org/bulaflow/
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------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 14:22:20 +0100 (BST)
From: Philip Richardson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [BD] the tour - discuss
To: Tom Russell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, BD <britdisc@near.me.uk>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
so you would change the dynamics of the game from the one played
internationally? would this really help in the long run or will we be
talking in a couple of years about changing our mixed game to the one
played internationally? i think it would be better to develop a mixed
division slower but in the correct vain.
Phil
Tom Russell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
So how about changing the male:female ratio in Mixed Tour to 4:3 or 5:2
(still chosen by the side on O), instead of 4:3 or 3:4 as it is now? In
my experience, it is fairly rare that the 4 girls option is actually
taken.
---------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 15:39:12 +0100 (BST)
From: Tom Howard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [BD] Seriously...
To: Britdisc <britdisc@near.me.uk>
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7th - Brighton 2?
13th - Trigger Happy
15th - Tenacious Devon 2
--- Andrew Godber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> .....B tour results anyone? Seeing as teams were
> supposed to have
> entered for nationals by yesterday, and the top 32
> rankings can't even
> be worked out yet?
>
> As far as I can gather from speaking to friends, it
> was along the lines
> of:
>
> 1. Devon 1
> 2. BPF 2
> 3. Lucky Huckers
> 4. Cardiff
> 5
> 6
> 7
> 8
> 9. Boogie Knights
> 10
> 11
> 12 Lords of the Ring
> 13
> 14 Sheffield Steal 2
> 15
> 16. UTB 1 who were mysteriously on the schedule for
> Colchester, despite
> playing in Mansfield. Unfortunately, we lost all our
> games in both
> events.
>
> Andy
> UTB
> __________________________________________________
> BritDisc mailing list
> BritDisc@near.me.uk
> http://zion.ranulf.net/mailman/listinfo/britdisc
> Staying informed -
> http://www.ukultimate.com/informed.asp
>
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------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 15:58:18 +0100
From: "Retter, Wayne \(Redhill\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [BD] Seriously...
To: "Britdisc" <britdisc@near.me.uk>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The memory-based list that I've been supplied by a tournament staff
member:
1 TenaciousDevon1
2 PlasticFactory2
3 LuckyHuckers
4 CardiffUltimate1
5 StrangeBlue
6 Schnell
7
8
9 BoogieKnights
10
11
12
13 TriggerHappy
14 SheffieldSteal2
15 TenaciousDevon2
Wayne 'Wrecker' Retter
Unofficial Tour statto
Clapham#13
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Tom Howard
Sent: 18 August 2005 15:39
To: Britdisc
Subject: Re: [BD] Seriously...
7th - Brighton 2?
13th - Trigger Happy
15th - Tenacious Devon 2
--- Andrew Godber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> .....B tour results anyone? Seeing as teams were
> supposed to have
> entered for nationals by yesterday, and the top 32
> rankings can't even
> be worked out yet?
>
> As far as I can gather from speaking to friends, it
> was along the lines
> of:
>
> 1. Devon 1
> 2. BPF 2
> 3. Lucky Huckers
> 4. Cardiff
> 5
> 6
> 7
> 8
> 9. Boogie Knights
> 10
> 11
> 12 Lords of the Ring
> 13
> 14 Sheffield Steal 2
> 15
> 16. UTB 1 who were mysteriously on the schedule for
> Colchester, despite
> playing in Mansfield. Unfortunately, we lost all our
> games in both
> events.
>
> Andy
> UTB
> __________________________________________________
> BritDisc mailing list
> BritDisc@near.me.uk
> http://zion.ranulf.net/mailman/listinfo/britdisc
> Staying informed -
> http://www.ukultimate.com/informed.asp
>
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------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 16:18:33 +0100
From: "Andrew Godber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [BD] Tour Standings
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <britdisc@near.me.uk>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
So, putting that together with what people have told me:
1 TenaciousDevon1
2 PlasticFactory2
3 LuckyHuckers
4 CardiffUltimate1
5 StrangeBlue
6 Schnell
7 Brighton 2
8 Aye Aye
9 BoogieKnights
10 ABH
11 Discuits 2
12 Lords 1
13 TriggerHappy
14 SheffieldSteal2
15 TenaciousDevon2
Gives an unofficial final tour standings below. Big congratulations to
Fire for winning the overall title and obviously congratulations to
Clapham for winning the Overall B Tour title.
TEAM TOTAL
1 FireOfLondon1 952
2 LeedsLeedsLeeds 912
3 Clapham1 884
4 ChevronActionFlash 884
5 Fusion1 768
6 Emo 695
7 BAF 680
8 PlasticFactory1 671
9 BrightonUltimate1 582
10 LtdRelease1 540
11 SheffieldSteal1 522
12 Discuits1 488
13 No-Lo 440
14 FlyghtClub1 399
15 PaddyMurphy 392
16 PlasticFactory2 387
17 Clapham2 380
18 TenaciousDevon1 359
19 FireOfLondon2 330
20 UTB1 278
21 CardiffUltimate1 266
22 StrangeBlue 242
23 Schnell 238
24 LuckyHuckers 216
25 MMJ 204
26 Abstract 201
27 TriggerHappy 189
28 ABH 187
29 LordsOfTheRing1 184
30 AyeAye 176
31 Discuits2 158
32 BrightonUltimate2 141
33 BoogieKnights 102
34 SheffieldSteal2 69
35 Motion 69
36 GBJuniors2 66
37 LtdRelease2 57
38 Fusion2 55
39 SuperMannSchaft 53
40 GBJuniors1 52
41 FlyghtClub2 50
42 Red 47
43 Shaft 43
44 TenaciousDevon2 41
45 NorthernLights 33
46 SuperKlute 30
47 TooManyPies 28
48 Discuits3 25
49 YorkUltimate 24
50 BAF2 23
51 UTB2 22
52 Sublime 20
53 LordsOfTheRing2 16
54 Airwolf 3
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Retter, Wayne (Redhill)
Sent: 18 August 2005 15:58
To: Britdisc
Subject: RE: [BD] Seriously...
The memory-based list that I've been supplied by a tournament staff
member:
1 TenaciousDevon1
2 PlasticFactory2
3 LuckyHuckers
4 CardiffUltimate1
5 StrangeBlue
6 Schnell
7
8
9 BoogieKnights
10
11
12
13 TriggerHappy
14 SheffieldSteal2
15 TenaciousDevon2
Wayne 'Wrecker' Retter
Unofficial Tour statto
Clapham#13
------------------------------
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End of BritDisc Digest, Vol 24, Issue 30
****************************************
