Pat and others who care about this, Biologists have now identified many specific mutations that have enabled species to persist in changing environments in a specific way. Molecular and physiological bases of many of these mutations are now well known. It is also well known in many organisms how natural selection favored these mutations. So your impression that "Natural selection only causes some species to die off" is not true. Most of the well-documented examples are not related to butterflies so I will not dwell on this here very much but you should look up work by Harvard's Hopi Hoekstra on beach mice, and Stanford's David Kingsley's work on stickleback fish. There are also many examples in fruitflies.
Molecular genetic bases of morphological changes in butterflies have not been studied as well but several labs have started looking at this. The most advanced work is on the African Bicyclus anynana, which is related to our Bushbrowns (Mycalesis spp.), on which ButterflyIndia’s Ullasa Kodandaramaiah has published a little bit. A major research program is under way by James Mallet (University College London), Chris Jiggins (Cambridge University) and Marcus Kronforst (Harvard University) to hunt down genes, and specific mutations, responsible for changes in wing patterns of neotropical Heliconius butterflies. Marcus Kronforst and I have also started looking for genes involved in mimicry in Indian swallowtail (Papilio) butterflies. We will have updates on this soon. In a forthcoming paper we will also show a superb signature of natural selection favoring genetic recombination in a Papilio butterfly. So I think you will change your mind if you understand what scientists have been finding out lately. And there is more to come. You are correct that genetic drift is often bad. But not always. Again, look up work by James Mallet on Heliconius butterflies, which has shown that drift may actually help establish novel wing patterns, which are under selection once they become established in a population. Drift is an excellent null hypothesis for most work on molecular evolution, but scientists more often than not end up finding signature of natural selection rather than drift in a lot of genetic variation that has been characterized. This applies to organisms from bacteria to fruitflies, which have been very well studied, and it will most likely be true for other organisms that are being studied. I think W. H. Evans, whose identification keys all serious butterfly watchers still use in India, said it best: “It has been asserted that the story of evolution is written on the wings of butterflies, if only we could attain the skill to interpret the writings. A full knowledge of nature can only be obtained by careful observation under natural conditions correlated with the study in museums, laboratories and libraries of the various forms under which nature displays itself and of the information gained by other observers.” I hope that Indian butterflies will continue to play a role in advancing this vision. There is an opportunity and a challenge for those who want to go beyond mere identifications of their photographs. With best wishes, Krushnamegh. ------------------------------------------------- Krushnamegh Kunte, PhD Post-doctoral Research Fellow FAS Center for Systems Biology Harvard University 52 Oxford St Northwest Lab Room 458.40-3 Cambridge, MA 02138, USA. Ph: (617) 496-0078 Cell: (512) 577-1370 Fax: (617) 495-2196 Email: [email protected] Other emails: [email protected], [email protected] Personal website: http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~kunte/index.htm Indian Foundation for Butterflies: http://ifoundbutterflies.org/ Google profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/krushnamegh ------------------------------------------------- > From: Pat <[email protected]> > Reply-To: butterflyindia <[email protected]> > Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 05:20:50 -0500 > To: butterflyindia <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [ButterflyIndia] Re : Lets do something for Butterfly India - > Critique Part 1 > > Hi, Krushnamegh, > > I pretty much agree with you (not about evolution, of course, but the > rest of your message). Evolution is somewhat controversial here, and a > discussion often leads to heated exchanges. I'm not terribly tolerant of > such discussions, but I tend to get along well with people of any view > as long as nobody is trying to push one view or the other. I don't think > religion is necessarily a determiner of how people think on this issue, > especially since my husband rejected evolution while he was an agnostic. > > Natural selection only causes some species to die off. It is not a > mechanism to generate the new DNA information necessary to cause the > appearance of new and different species. Most genetic drift causes > changes that are detrimental. > > I will post some pictures soon as requested. I've been out in the field > so much, birding, that I have had very little time to do things like > that. I took nearly 900 pictures day before yesterday, and I just > finished going through them late yesterday. > > Take care, > Pat > > Kunte, Krushnamegh wrote: >> >> >> Pat, people in India and elsewhere are usually more tolerant of >> religious and atheist/evolutionary views compared to Americans. I see >> the same butterflies that you do and I am completely convinced that >> evolution by natural selection, with a little bit of genetic drift >> once in a while, has shaped their, as you put it, “design” (I would >> call it their structure). But that’s all right because my personal >> experience, thinking, worldview and training are different than yours. >> As long as we all appreciate beauty of butterflies and can have a >> fruitful discussion about what Indian butterflies are and do, I think >> it matters little what you personally believe in. Tolerance, >> understanding of and respect for alternative views in a social group >> like this is the key to sharing ideas and information in a productive >> way. I am sure that many, if not most, butterflyindia members are >> religious to some degree, but evolution has never been controversial >> on this group. >> >> BTW, Ashwin, your email was thoughtful and detailed, as always. I have >> been somewhat dormant on this group for a while because of my work. I >> have finished a couple of papers on mimicry and population dynamics of >> Western Ghats butterflies, and preparing to write some more, so am >> very busy nowadays. I do quickly scan through all the emails, though, >> and I will jump in whenever something of my interest happens. >> >> With best wishes, >> >> Krushnamegh. >> ------------------------------------------------- >> >> Krushnamegh Kunte, PhD >> >> Post-doctoral Research Fellow >> FAS Center for Systems Biology >> Harvard University >> 52 Oxford St >> Northwest Lab Room 458.40-3 >> Cambridge, MA 02138, USA. >> >> Ph: (617) 496-0078 >> Cell: (512) 577-1370 >> Fax: (617) 495-2196 >> Email: [email protected] >> Other emails: [email protected], [email protected] >> >> Personal website: http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~kunte/index.htm >> <http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/%7Ekunte/index.htm> >> Indian Foundation for Butterflies: http://ifoundbutterflies.org/ >> Google profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/krushnamegh >> ------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *From: *Pat <[email protected]> >> *Reply-To: *butterflyindia <[email protected]> >> *Date: *Mon, 3 Jan 2011 21:07:30 -0500 >> *To: *butterflyindia <[email protected]> >> *Subject: *Re: [ButterflyIndia] Re : Lets do something for Butterfly >> India - Critique Part 1 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> There have been times when someone has made a reference to the theory >> of evolution, always in a positive light. I haven't said anything >> because even though I disagree with evolution, discussions always seem >> to turn out with animosity and hostility. >> >> So I'm mentioning it in passing. >> >> Any person who is at all familiar with butterflies should easily >> develop a sense of the phenomenal engineering and design of a >> consummate artist, who designed these wonderful flying flowers. There >> is no way random destructive processes could have done it. >> >> That's my 2c worth. >> >> As I have mentioned, I have photos of Indian butterflies, but they >> were all taken in captivity. I have asked if anyone wanted to see >> these, but nobody responded, so I assume not. Since I don't live in >> India, I can't capture them in the wild. Krushnamegh graciously >> offered to identify any I don't know. So far, I have been able to >> identify most. But I will take him up on his offer if I get one that >> stumps me. >> >> People have graciously invited me to come visit. Unfortunately, that >> kind of travel is expensive and beyond my budget. So I am just sitting >> here enjoying everyone's photos. >> >> Happy New Year to everyone. >> >> Pat Goltz >> Arizona >> USA > > > ------------------------------------ > > --- > Follow http://twitter.com/DiversityIndia > ---Yahoo! Groups Links > > > -- Enjoy
