I agree with Dr. Habib’s first two paragraphs, but, while agreeing with the
fact that preprints are not banned, cannot agree that this applies to the
present case. Since I believe that there are people on this group who are not
aware of the processes of scientific publication, I shall go into some detail:
The photos of Lethe margaritae, including location and date have been published
in two e-forums: 1) Butterflies and moths of Sikkim and 2) Indian Foundation
for Butterflies.
The former is a non-formal site. There is no need to consider that the finding
has been formally published by placing it on that site. However, IFB is an
edited, formal e-forum. (“Cite this page along with its URL as Kunte, K. 2011.
History of species pages on Butterflies of India website. In K. Kunte, S.
Kalesh and U. Kodandaramaiah (eds.). Butterflies of India, v. 1.01 . Indian
Foundation for Butterflies”.). By placing the photos of Lethe margaritae on
this site, one cannot escape the fact that it has been published in Volume 1.01
of Butterflies of India, edited by K.Kunte, S. Kalesh and U. Kodandaramaiah.
With over 200,000 visits in the past years, it is by no means an obscure site.
For those working in unrelated fields, I would like to bring to notice that the
latest issue of the journal Science reports that at an international conference
of botanists in Australia, it was decided that henceforth there should be no
need for new descriptions of plants to appear in paper journals, e-publication
would be considered sufficient. Given this, there is no way in which IFB can be
considered a non-formal site.
Concerning pre-prints, these are of two types: one is on non-formal
facebook-like forums, the other is when the journal in which a paper is being
published circulates the paper prior to formal publication in the same journal.
Published pages on IFB cannot be considered pre-prints for another scientific
journal, on the basis of the “cite this page as….” advisory on IFB.
When Sanjyog prepares his formal paper for publication, he can choose not to
mention that the photos and relevant information have been published on IFB.
This will be unethical. If he chooses to report it, he will have to report it
in the following words or words to this effect, “A single male of Lethe
margaritae was recorded from XXXX in Sikkim on XX July 2011 (Anonymous 2011:
Kunte, K. 2011. History of species pages on Butterflies of India website. In K.
Kunte, S. Kalesh and U. Kodandaramaiah (eds.). Butterflies of India, v. 1.01 .
Indian Foundation for Butterflies.). The re-discovery of this butterfly is
hereby reported……”
While this will not contradict the letter of the rule which every journal
enjoins, that is, the paper should not have been offered for publication
elsewhere, it certainly goes against the spirit of the rule, in that the same
material is being offered up for publicaiton that has already been published
elsewhere.
The three facts that Sanjyog at present has to report about this species that
are unreported in the literature are the place of observation (an extension to
the known distribution of the species), date of observation and the photos of
the specimen (re-discovery of the species). All three facts appear on the IFB
website.
Clearly, it has already been reported, or published, if you will.
In any ethical consideration, there are many shades of grey: this is definitely
one of them. I sought to make it black or white by suggesting that the editors
of IFB unpublish the photos until such a time as Sanjyog publishes his finding
in a formal publication, after which it could be re-published on IFB. However,
I see that the suggestion has been brushed aside. Nevertheless, from the above
it will be evident that my point of view is certainly not “mistaken”.
On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 15:50:52 +0530 wrote
>
I suppose once the paper is published it can be listed under the
References tab on the species page.
I see that some pages do have the names of contributors as authors in the "Cite
this page" text. So maybe "Anonymous" could be replaced by specific names here.
Agree that displaying photos here at this stage has no bearing on formal
publication. The scientific world communicates its results by preprints and no
journal bans those! And here you only have photos and no "article" which can be
presumed to have been published.
cheers
Amber Habib
Delhi
From: "Kunte,
Krushnamegh"
To: butterflyindia
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 7:59 PM
Subject: [ButterflyIndia] Re: Bhutan Treebrown (Lethe margaritae)
Dear Usha,
I think it is a good idea to publish these sightings in a scientific paper, and
I can help Sanjyog and Karma Dorjee with this. I have written a more detailed
email to the three of you, please check it out.
Peter is mistaken about scientific publishing and about credits, and his
suggestion about unpublishing and publishing the pictures on the BOI website is
also quite unnecessary. The photos on the BOI website (or on Facebook where
they were first posted) do not affect anything else that Sanjyog and Karma
Dorjee want to do next. Anyway, I have offered more about this in my email to
the three of you.
With best wishes,
Krushnamegh.
From: usha lachungpa
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 04:52:45 -0400
To: Krushnamegh Kunte
Cc: butterflyindia , "[email protected]" , kdgyatsov19
Conversation: Bhutan Treebrown (Lethe margaritae)
Subject: Re: Bhutan Treebrown (Lethe margaritae)
Dear Krushnamegh,
This is indeed exciting. We have been following this on FB eagerly. You
certainly seem to have started it with your Scarce Jester!! First the rare
Hockeystick Sailer and now Bhutan Treebrown, an endemic Sch-1 species with
range extension in North Sikkim by young local vets. Since the newly formed
Butterflies and Moths of Sikkim (BAMOS) Facebook Egroup by Karma Dorjee and
Sanjyog, progress has been tremendous due to support of Lepidoptera experts and
amateurs from all over. Your meeting them through Sikkim Ornithological Society
(SOS) in Gangtok during your last visit for the ATREE funded Sikkim butterfly
project was a big opportunity. They are both thrilled to see their butterflies
have featured on 'IFoundButterflies'.
Your help in first publication of both Karma's Hockeystick Sailer and Sanjyog's
Bhutan Treebrown would be a boost to these budding scientists to become
authors. I learn from both Karma and Sanjyog that they are very keen as this
would be a first for them. Karma got his BVSc this month itself, Sanjyog just a
few years ago and presently with ICAR! This would be big for their CVs and
ensure their continued interest in biodiversity conservation in Sikkim where
development is fast overtaking conservation in many areas due to lack of
information, and more important, lack of local involvement & initiative.
I have a starter/beginner article attached which may help but definitely needs
your input. Can you suggest where their article could be published as a titled
paper in recognized journal?
Also, I request you to add both Karma and Sanjyog's names as co-authors in the
relevant citations on IFB since at the moment they are of course photo-credited
but it looks like a discovery of IFB and not them. Please don't get me wrong,
but am sure you agree that it would certainly help them. Peter Smetacek seems
to have found the way forward and I copy below his comment to Sanjyog and
Gaurav on the Bhutan Treebrown thread, which you might not be aware of (and
this would probably also hold for Karma's Hockeystick Sailer):
Peter Smetacek : Sanjyog and Gaurav, sorry for interfering in what is
essentially a matter between you two and IFB, but I was thinking about this
matter- somehow it does not seem right that Sanjyog should not be able to claim
credit for his discovery in a proper paper in a scientific journal. If I were
Sanjyog, I would ask Gaurav to unpublish the page, then do up a proper paper
and send it to a scientific journal of his choice. After it is published in the
journal, Gaurav can re-publish the page on IFB. That way, the discovery would
get proper ex-pression and Sanjyog can have a scientific paper on his CV.
This sound so right and feasible so I look forward to your comments eagerly.
Kind regards,
Usha
On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Kunte, Krushnamegh wrote:
Hi all,
I am passing on news of a very exciting recent discovery by Sanjyog Rai of the
Bhutan Treebrown (Lethe margaritae) in North Sikkim:
http://ifoundbutterflies.org/441-lethe/lethe-margaritae
This species is very rare and is legally protected in India under Schedule I of
the Wildlife (Protection) Act. I do not recall seeing any other pictures of
this species, or even any other recent sightings. I will be interested in
hearing from other people if they have seen/photographed this species.
Usha, this is a fantastic sighting, another rare species seen in Sikkim once
again. I thought you would be interested to know.
With best wishes,
Krushnamegh.
-------------------------------------------------
Krushnamegh Kunte, PhD
Post-doctoral Research Fellow
FAS Center for Systems Biology
Harvard University
52 Oxford St., Northwest Lab Room 458.40-3
Cambridge, MA 02138, USA.
Ph: (617) 496-0078, Cell: (512) 577-1370, Fax: (617) 495-2196
Email: [email protected]
Other emails: [email protected] , [email protected]
Personal website: http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~kunte/index.htm
Indian Foundation for Butterflies: http://ifoundbutterflies.org/
Google profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/krushnamegh
--
Usha Ganguli-Lachungpa
Prin. Research Officer
Dept. of Forest, Env. & WL Mgmt.
Govt. of Sikkim
Forest Secretariat Annexe Bldg
Deorali, Gangtok 737102
Tel/Cell: 03592-280402; 094340-25273
[email protected]
--
Enjoy
