I agree with your point on obscurity with newer dancers, Michael. I also feel some of the names (and I hope this is taken well) de-humanizes the roles. Jets, Rubys, corners are references to things or positions rather than people. I know this does not solve the problem at hand and may not be helpful-Joe On Jun 2, 2015, at 1:05 AM, Michael Fuerst via Callers wrote:
> Consider this dance > > E.J.M.J.F. in Cincinnati Duple Improper Michael Fuerst > March, 1991 > > A1 Balance and swing neighbor. > > A2 Men allemande left 1 1/2 and swing partner. > > B1 Long lines forward and back. Women chain to neighbor. > > B2 Women allemande right (4). > 1/2 hey, neighbors start passing left shoulder, until > neighbors on the side they started the dance (8). > Neighbors pass left shoulders and turn sharply left along set to > meet new > neighbors (4). > Using this thread's suggestions, I think this becomes (as long as dancers > understand that those starting as second corners always end the swing on the > right) > E.J.M.J.F. in Cincinnati Duple Improper Michael Fuerst > March, 1991 > > A1 Balance and swing neighbor. > > A2 First corners allemande left 1 1/2 and swing partner. > > B1 Long lines forward and back. Second corners chain to neighbor. > > B2 Second corners allemande right (4). > 1/2 hey, neighbors start passing left shoulder, until > neighbors on the side they started the dance (8). > Neighbors pass left shoulders and turn sharply left along set to > meet new > neighbors (4) > This makes the dance obscure to beginning and intermediate dancers. Seems > best to have names corresponding to the men's and women's roles, rather than > to have dancer's determine which corners they are at any point in the dance. > > > Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217 239 5844 > > > > On Tuesday, June 2, 2015 2:26 AM, Andrea Nettleton via Callers > <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > > Actually Alan, because we dance improper most frequently, and becket almost > as much, I think I really don't want the labels applied to people so they > stick. I'm just using the word corner the way Brooke and Chris use diagonal. > In contra, we already have a use for the word diagonal, meaning the next > pair along across the set to the right or left. The corner reference we have > is actually close to right, probably having grown out of triple minor dances. > Right diagonal is first corner, Left diagonal is second. Make it fit in a > hands four and you have pairs of corners along opposite angles. It's a place > not a person. Then I can write a dance beginning with a second corner chain, > and it will be those formerly identified as gents, but will work totally > fine. If the dance were proper, you could still have a second diagonals > chain and it would be one of each 'role'. A direct transfer of the system to > contra is not as useful as adapting, IMHO. > Andrea > > Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask > > On Jun 2, 2015, at 3:07 AM, Winston, Alan P. <wins...@slac.stanford.edu> > wrote: > >> > > I'm not Andrea but as someone who's appreciated the value of global calling > since Chris and Brooke proselytized our West Coast English caller self > improvement group about it in 2000 and who regularly uses it even in not > gender free English as well as for gender free English I think I can answer. > > The Heather and Rose style (which they didn't invent but have published the > most in) is designed for proper longways. Men's line is left file, ladies > line is right file. In a square or Becket formation gents place are first > diagonals, ladies are second diagonals. Corner is reserved for contra > corners and the immediate neighbor in a square. > > However, mainstream English gives us first corners (in a proper set, first > gent and second lady) and second corners (first lady and second gent). If > you apply that to a typical improper contra, as Andrea was suggesting, the > ladies are on the first corners, the gents on the second corners. > > The answer to each of your questions about how she'd indicate what we now do > with gender is to substitute a corner reference. First corners make a wave > in the middle of the set. They back up and second corners come in. > > > You'd have to decide whether the same positional reference applies to becket, > where it would be the gents, or have the corner assignments apply before you > becketize, which would be my preference. > > Does that clear it up ? > > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jun 1, 2015, at 9:12 AM, Ron Blechner via Callers > <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > >> Andrea, how would you handle the following: >> 1. Lines of one role/position to the center to a wavy line, as in Trip to >> Lambertville, et all? >> 2. Indication of who walks forward / backs up in a gypsy star? >> 3. Indication of who-leads-who, such as in Ramsay Chase, Pedal Pushers, >> Jurassic Redheads, etc. >> 4. Indication of who is passing while calling a hey. >> 5. Indication of who crosses, who turns in a box circulate? >> 6. Indication any other role/position specific move that I haven't >> mentioned? Turn over right shoulder, as in Fairport Harbour? Rollaways? >> None of these fall under the "most unusual figures" as you stated. >> Ron >> On Jun 1, 2015 11:59 AM, "Andrea Nettleton via Callers" >> <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> In previous discussions here, on FB, and privately with organizers at >> Hampshire over the last two years, I have discussed the possible use of >> global terminology for gender free contra. I would contend that if used, >> everyone would become more aware of the structure of dances. Only the most >> unusual figures/sequences would be unable to be called. The addition of >> first and second corner positions to the arsenal makes it possible for same >> role dancers to also be called upon to dance together without reference to >> gender. Second corners chain, or first corners allemande L 1 1/2 for >> example. It would have to be agreed that this refers to those standing in >> those positions at that moment. In ECD we use first and second corners to >> refer to the people, first and second diagonals for the positions. But >> since we use diagonal to refer to those across and over one set, this seems >> unhelpful. Simply corner positions works better. I'm glad some folks are >> trying it out at last. I had hoped for an opportunity myself before now. >> Cheers, >> Andrea >> >> Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask >> >> On Jun 1, 2015, at 8:37 AM, Jim Hemphill via Callers >> <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> >>> The recent discussions on this topic inspired me to try an experiment in >>> gender free calling. Last night I called the contra dance in St. Louis >>> using gender free calling without telling anyone. The experiment was a >>> great success. I received lots of positive feedback on the evenings >>> dance. At the break and after the dance I made a point to ask several >>> dancers, some were callers as well, if they noticed anything different or >>> unusual about the dances or how I taught them. One person noticed that >>> there were more dances that included a swing in the center for couple 2 >>> than usual. No one I talked to noticed that the calls and teaching were >>> gender free. >>> >>> It took some extra time to construct a fun, diverse 3 hour program, but it >>> is certainly possible. Re-labeling the dancers is not the only way to call >>> gender free. >>> >>> If you are interested in the program I used or the larger collection of >>> gender free dances I chose the program from, send me an email, >>> arcadia...@gmail.com. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Jim Hemphill >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Callers mailing list >>> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net >>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers@lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers@lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
