Thanks everyone for the helpful discussion and sorry for my silence (busy with life). Here’s a bit more information. First of all, I’ve added a few more photos, of even worse quality :-/ Here’s an updated link …
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nm25xfhyarydgxg/AAAvRHHfszKtNmiLRVoy-LYWa To recap, with a bit more detail. I first heard the bird vocalize, and to me it sounded like a completely classical red-tail sound. I quickly located the bird with my naked eye (90% sure it was the same bird). I did not see any other raptors or TVs in the area. I stepped inside the garage to grab binoculars from the car (15 secs or so), quickly relocated the bird and began observing, still assuming “red-tail”. What I noticed first was the dark underside. I observed through the binoculars for a few minutes before asking my wife to go grab my son’s camera. As I continued watching, it vocalized again. Up until this point, I was still certain it was an unusually dark red-tail. I thought that I saw red on the upper side of the tail a few times, but I’d put about 50% confidence on that statement. When my wife brought the camera, before I began taking pictures, my view of the bird was blocked momentarily by some trees. When it emerged from behind the trees I began snapping pictures. I’d say I’m at least 90% sure that the bird I was observing through the binoculars, that I heard vocalizing, and the one I got pictures of are the same bird. I’m 99% sure there was only 1 bird in the area while I was snapping pictures. I.e. they are all of the same bird, including the one that looks like the tail is reddish. I’ve seen broad-winged hawks (though not dark morph), and I’m nearly certain it was not a broad-wing. The wings and tail seemed too long to me and the shape and flight style just didn’t seem right either. The vocalization sounded nothing like the recordings I’ve heard of broad-wings. I’ve never seen a zone-tailed hawk, but that does seem to be the one that matches best with what I saw. I don’t recall that I ever saw it flap, but I do remember thinking that it held it’s wings in a slight V and that there was something else about the way it flew that seemed “different” (helpful, right? I know). The vocalization, however, sounded more classical red-tail than the recordings I’ve heard of the zone-tailed hawk. Afterward, I was very sorry I didn’t have a better camera and that the autofocus had done such a poor job on so many of my shots. I thought I’d taken plenty that I’d have multiple good ones to help with the ID. Based on the comments and my own looking at photos, listening to sounds, etc. I’m leaning pretty strongly toward zone-tailed hawk, but would love to hear any further comments. Ray On Jun 16, 2014, at 11:32 AM, John Greenly <j...@cornell.edu> wrote: > I have watched Zone-tailed in the SW, and they really do fly like Turkey > Vultures. Everything I can see in the third picture does look very > consistent with Zone-tailed (except for one thing), but if you didn't notice > the flight style, it probably isn't one. The one thing is the shape of the > wing trailing edge- it's a little bit bulged in the secondaries and somewhat > pinched in at the body, whereas Zone-tailed usually looks very straight- see > for instance the photo on the Wikipedia page of a Zone-tailed from almost the > same perspective as your third picture. Was the bird flapping when you took > the second picture- I would expect more dihedral for soaring Zone-tailed. I > absolutely agree about the first picture- the apparent color is false, due to > out-of-focus chromatic aberration. > > If it's a B-wing, it's doing an amazing job of disguising itself: shape and > proportions don't look right at all. The tail banding pattern is very > clearly visible, and not right for Red-shouldered. The sound of Zone-tailed > call is more pure whistle- less screechy or scratchy- than Red-Tailed, but > not so terribly different if you're not paying close attention. But, would a > solitary, lost Zone-tailed be likely to be calling at all? > > Interesting! But I'm definitely no expert. > > --John Greenly > > > On Jun 16, 2014, at 10:22 AM, Gary Kohlenberg wrote: > >> Ray, >> I think arguments could be made for a couple species / morphs based on the >> backlit photos, and I have my opinion, but as you heard the bird call my bet >> would be whatever the vocalization indicates. I don’t know if you are solid >> on the calls, but to my ear the Broad-winged “p-seeee” and juvenile Red-tail >> squeals can sound similar. Red-shouldered Hawks sound completely different >> and the unlikely Zone-tailed even more so. >> >> Gary >> >> >> From: bounce-116290980-3493...@list.cornell.edu >> [mailto:bounce-116290980-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Dave Nutter >> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2014 4:32 AM >> To: CAYUGABIRDS-L >> Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] dark red-tailed hawk >> >> Good point about the primary barring showing at the molt. If the slaty color >> of the wing linings and underside of the body & head is true, not just >> reddish which appears so dark because it's dull, backlit, and distant (as >> our usual Broad-wingeds appear gray instead of pink on the breast when high >> overhead), then I must admit that Zone-tailed seems possible. I think >> Red-shouldered, although darker than Broad-winged, shouldn't be so >> extensively dark, either. I'm just not familiar enough with Zone-tailed to >> be confident. >> --Dave Nutter >> >> On Jun 15, 2014, at 11:28 PM, Rbakelaar <rbakel...@aol.com> wrote: >> >> The photos seem to demonstrate barring on the primaries, more so than I >> would expect on even a dark phase Broad-wing. The molted out feather allows >> this characteristic to be seen somewhat well. This bird's proportions seem >> to weigh against B-wing too. The wings seem long and narrow, with only a >> slight bulge of the secondaries. Tail seems long as we'll. The photos also >> seem to show a black body. >> >> Any of our resident experts care to weigh in? >> >> Ryan. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jun 15, 2014, at 10:57 PM, Dave Nutter <nutter.d...@me.com> wrote: >> >> I couldn't reconcile the red tail of photo 1 with the black and white >> stripes of photo 3, even though I have seen various effects of looking >> through backlit feathers. The reason I didn't say Red-shouldered Hawk is >> that the white tail-band appeared too wide to me (but this may be a focus >> issue, or may judgement may be wrong), and the white mark in the otherwise >> even-colored primaries appears to me due to a molted missing feather on each >> side, not a "window" across the primaries. The reason I said "the only >> species of Buteo around here" is that Zone-tailed Hawk is way out of range, >> and also is less familiar to me. My guess was that Zone-tailed would not >> look so pale on the flight feathers of the wings. I am open to correction on >> all points. >> --Dave Nutter >> >> On Jun 15, 2014, at 08:28 PM, Sandy Podulka <s...@cornell.edu> wrote: >> >> As you know, I'm really just a beginner at hawks...... but... What about a >> Red-shouldered Hawk? It's got the white windows and the banded tail. The >> reddish appearance of the tail could just be sunlight shining through >> brownish feathers, which can really play tricks on the eye. It seems like >> the distribution of light and dark on the underside of the wings matches >> that of Red-shouldered Hawk. >> >> Sandy >> >> At 08:09 PM 6/15/2014, Ann Mitchell wrote: >> >> I agree with Dave regarding a Broad-winged Hawk. Ann Mitchell >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jun 15, 2014, at 5:28 PM, Dave Nutter <nutter.d...@me.com> wrote: >> >> >> I am NOT an authority on raptors, but that has never stopped me from >> commenting before, so here's my guess: >> >> I think the first blurry photo looks like a dark type of Red-tailed Hawk >> more typically found out west. >> >> I think the second and third photos are of a different bird with a feather >> missing from primaries on each side. The only species of Buteo around here >> with such a wide bold white stripe in the tail is Broad-winged Hawk, which >> also shows a black outline to the ends of the flight feathers on the entire >> wing, as seen in the third photo. However, dark-type Broad-winged Hawks are >> rare, and the wing shape looks too long and rounded to me, so I'm not at all >> confident. I hope someone who really knows what they are talking about has a >> look at your photos and sets me straight. >> >> --Dave >> Nutter >> >> On Jun 15, 2014, at 03:23 PM, Ray Zimmerman <r...@cornell.edu> wrote: >> >> >> Today around 12:30pm as I stepped outside (in Eastern Heights, Ithaca) the >> call of red-tailed hawk caught my attention and I quickly spotted it >> circling overhead. As I grabbed my binoculars, I soon realized that it was a >> very unusual red-tail (at least very different from the one’s I’m used >> to seeing). As you can see from very bad photos linked below, it was quit >> dark below. >> >> So is this a western bird, or is this just a variation I haven’t seen >> around here before? >> >> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/t7pw5hoifjpzeey/AABcyimp4JipHTo8DwZc0r8-a >> >> — Ray >> >> -- >> >> Cayugabirds-L List Info: >> http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME >> http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES >> http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm >> >> ARCHIVES: >> 1) cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu /maillist.html'> http://www.mail-archive.com/ >> cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu /maillist.html >> 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds >> 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html >> >> Please submit your observations to eBird: >> http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ >> >> -- >> -- >> Cayugabirds-L List Info: >> Welcome and Basics >> Rules and Information >> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave >> Archives: >> The Mail Archive >> Surfbirds >> BirdingOnThe.Net >> Please submit your observations to eBird! >> ---- >> Cayugabirds-L List Info: >> Welcome and Basics >> Rules and Information >> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave >> Archives: >> The Mail Archive >> Surfbirds >> BirdingOnThe.Net >> Please submit your observations to eBird! >> -- >> -- >> Cayugabirds-L List Info: >> Welcome and Basics >> >> Rules and Information >> >> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave >> >> Archives: >> The Mail Archive >> >> Surfbirds >> >> BirdingOnThe.Net >> >> Please submit your observations to eBird! >> -- >> -- >> Cayugabirds-L List Info: >> Welcome and Basics >> Rules and Information >> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave >> Archives: >> The Mail Archive >> Surfbirds >> BirdingOnThe.Net >> Please submit your observations to eBird! >> -- >> -- >> Cayugabirds-L List Info: >> Welcome and Basics >> Rules and Information >> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave >> Archives: >> The Mail Archive >> Surfbirds >> BirdingOnThe.Net >> Please submit your observations to eBird! >> -- > > -- > Cayugabirds-L List Info: > Welcome and Basics > Rules and Information > Subscribe, Configuration and Leave > Archives: > The Mail Archive > Surfbirds > BirdingOnThe.Net > Please submit your observations to eBird! > -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
