Don't even have to get to Europe. I've been under a couple over 10 years ago and know of others in sunny Arizona. They weren't the typical "farm" as they vary in size. I hesitate to say many since I don't know the number and been awhile since I've been there.
Duane On Sun, Jun 11, 2023, 4:49 PM John Gregoire <johnandsuegrego...@gmail.com> wrote: > Many in europe and mandated in some areas. Terrific idea. Add dirt instead > of asphalt and add more benefits. > > On Sun, Jun 11, 2023 at 1:18 PM sarah fern <fernsara...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Have there been any trials of solar farms located over parking lots? >> Double benefit: shade for the cars and use of space that otherwise is >> driving up global warming. >> >> On Thu, Jun 8, 2023 at 12:44 AM Colleen Richards <cl...@juno.com> wrote: >> >>> Thank you Dave for a clear, concise presentation that helps point out >>> the multiple problems facing us in choosing how we want to live. Ultimate >>> value choices may not be agreed upon by everyone, though. And that has been >>> apparent in these posts. >>> >>> Thanks for being honest about how birds can be affected by each form of >>> energy's procurement / usage. That perspective helps to "round out" the >>> information needed for each person's decision-making. >>> >>> In the end, each of us is required to make our own choices, and perhaps >>> to enter into the public, or political, arena to stand up for those >>> choices. It has been good to voice our thoughts and to encourage one >>> another to keep perspective. >>> >>> For now I am planning to continue to point out the beauties of nature to >>> those around me and to educate young people (and older ones, too) to >>> appreciate and understand our responsibility to care for and about this >>> world that we have been blessed with. >>> >>> Colleen Richards >>> >>> ---------- Original Message ---------- >>> From: Dave Nutter <nutter.d...@me.com> >>> To: CayugaBirds-L b <cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu> >>> Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] Conservation vs Ecology >>> Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2023 17:43:26 -0400 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Carl makes a valid point about the destructiveness to flora and fauna of >>> large scale solar arrays. Solar panels which cover huge fields should be >>> called mines, not farms. The arrays’ extraction of energy is industrial, >>> not biological, and it is done while trying to overcome natural systems, so >>> the solar arrays disrupt biology. By contrast, a farm harnesses biology >>> using our soil and rain, and it diverts some of the biological products to >>> human purposes in a repeatable annual process. When agriculture is >>> practiced on the scale of a family farm, it can do so in concert with >>> plants and wildlife in hedgerows, along streams, and around ponds, and >>> agriculture’s incidental waste products can be more easily absorbed and >>> used by nature along all those edges. Factory farms differ from traditional >>> farms because with “efficiency†of scale, they eliminate nature and >>> nature’s ability to handle agriculture’s side effects. At large scale, >>> the waste is no longer incidental and absorbed, it is toxic. >>> >>> If farm land is abandoned, it can be reclaimed by plants and animals. >>> When the solar panels wear out in a couple decades, will the regulations >>> make it worth the effort and expense to recycle the old ones and install >>> new ones? Or will it be cheaper to abandon those arrays? On my daily walks >>> I see metal playground equipment in the woods because the City of Ithaca >>> took it from where the Children’s Garden was being built, and chucked it >>> alongside the old railroad grade, which became the Black Diamond Trail. I >>> imagine hundreds of acres of metal of a big solar array, but overgrown >>> among trees, vines and shrubs. >>> >>> For a solar array to work in our climate, vegetation must suppressed. >>> This can be done by pasturing sheep among them, which makes cute >>> advertising video, but how often is this practice used? How often is plant >>> suppression done instead by covering and/or poisoning the soil? This has >>> effects of heating the ground and speeding rain runoff. How often is plant >>> suppression among solar arrays done with fossil-fuel powered machinery >>> which also wastes the plant material? Maybe folks think that’s no big >>> deal because so much land area is already mown, wasting both plants and >>> fossil fuel, but I think mowing should be drastically scaled back. A >>> reasonable sized personal lawn is the area a person can keep mowed with a >>> reel mower pushed by hand without using fossil fuel. It’s not worth >>> adding to the destruction of the natural climate, flora, and fauna in order >>> to have a bigger lawn than one actually uses. >>> >>> So, yes, I agree, big solar arrays are poor for plants & animals. I also >>> see at least 3 other parts to the equation as we evaluate the harm and >>> benefit of solar arrays. What did the solar arrays replace on the >>> landscape? What were the solar arrays built instead of for energy? How much >>> energy do we need? >>> >>> In our moist temperate region, the land was mostly forested until being >>> cleared for agriculture, which was a big investment. Abandoned agricultural >>> land can, through succession, become meadows, shrub fields, and secondary >>> forest, all of which harbor a wide variety of birds, but that’s a value >>> we take for granted, not one with a price tag on it. People generally like >>> and are uplifted by wild birds, and some of us are passionate about them. >>> But abandoned farmland is considered “unproductive†by those who tax the >>> land, and therefore also by those who own the land, so this habitat is apt >>> to be shredded and converted to a large scale solar array. I’ve certainly >>> seen that happen. If we as a society can literally value land which >>> supports a diversity of birds, then less will be turned into long-term >>> non-bird-habitat. >>> >>> My impression is that most agricultural land around here is for corn, >>> and I’ve also seen some cornfields replaced by solar arrays. What’s >>> the impact on birds? What do we lose when a cornfield is replaced by a >>> solar array? Cornfields are lousy habitat for breeding birds, but >>> blackbirds feed there in spring and autumn, and waterfowl may feed there in >>> winter. If old-fashioned manure is spread, then Horned Larks, Snow >>> Buntings, and a few Lapland Longspurs may visit to feed. And if they are >>> quick about it, Horned Larks might nest on the bare dirt before farmers get >>> too active there. Pesticides used on corn affects insects, birds, and >>> aquatic animals beyond the fields. What is the corn used for? Regulations >>> require ethanol to be added to gasoline. Ethanol is easy to make from corn, >>> so lots of corn goes there, which helps keep corn prices high and lots of >>> land in corn, even though corn takes so much energy to produce, what with >>> pesticides & fertilizers & machines, that adding ethanol from corn >>> increases the carbon footprint of the gasoline. Maybe the sway of >>> corn-producing states, especially Iowa with its early caucus, is some of >>> the politics Carl mentioned. Another big use of corn is for high-fructose >>> corn syrup, a cheap sweetener which is a big ingredient of many processed >>> foods and beverages, and which has been implicated in our epidemics of >>> obesity and diabetes. Again, politics may sway how health is studied and >>> the public is informed. Another big use of corn is feed for livestock. >>> While I enjoy eating meat, cheese, yogurt, butter, ice cream, and eggs, I >>> also know that foods which are higher on the food chain, especially cattle, >>> take an awful lot of energy and water to produce, and in many cases produce >>> a lot of pollution. I don’t need lots of meat, not every day. And what I >>> eat doesn’t need to be totally dependent on corn. I can eat local pork >>> and eggs which are produced with less negative impact on wildlife, the >>> environment, and the climate. And if you eat dairy, wouldn’t you prefer >>> to support a farm where the family appreciates birds, practices farming in >>> a way that allows them to accrue a yard list of over 200 species, and >>> welcomes the birding public to appreciate the rarities such as the Say’s >>> Phoebe, Scissor-tailed Flycatcher, and Yellow Rail that chose to visit? >>> I’m talking about the Troyers’ Birdsong Meadow Farm in Candor. They >>> have pastures and hayfields, where they reserve space for a thriving colony >>> of Bobolinks, but they don’t feed their cows corn at all. The Troyer >>> farm’s milk goes to Organic Valley, in case you want to support >>> conscientious bird-friendly farming. >>> >>> But if a corn field, which uses lots of energy, and depletes topsoil, >>> and often results in erosion, and produces plenty of pesticide pollution, >>> and has dubious societal benefit, gets taken out of corn production, should >>> it also be taken out of biology by installing a huge solar array? Seneca >>> Meadows shows that, with effort, corn fields can return to exceptional >>> wildlife habitat. Similarly, Montezuma Wetlands Complex is on land that was >>> once the vast Montezuma Marshes which were a big barrier to building the >>> Erie Canal, then were drained and used as farm land (potatoes, then corn in >>> my memory) with dikes & channels to deliberately flood & drain the fields. >>> Former corn fields still have potential for birds. >>> >>> What are the solar arrays erected instead of, in terms of energy >>> sources? If it’s burning coal or petroleum, or gas from the ground, those >>> energy sources add greenhouse gases to the atmosphere directly at large >>> scale through burning. There is tremendous land destruction and water >>> pollution and air pollution from mining and washing coal, and dealing with >>> the leftover ash and the mining wastes. It turns out that newly exposed >>> rock is not benign; it has elements exposed and chemicals produced which >>> are toxic. Likewise, be happy you don’t live where petroleum is produced, >>> or shipped, or refined, because those places are toxic. Much petroleum >>> nowadays, like much gas mining, is extracted by fracking, which involves >>> pumping chemicals into the ground at high pressure in order fracture the >>> rock. Those liquids come back up even more toxic, saline, and radioactive >>> but must be “disposed of†somewhere. Dumped? Spread on roads to melt >>> ice? Sent to a wastewater treatment plant that was designed only for >>> digesting human feces? Some of the fracking chemicals make the groundwater >>> unsafe to drink. And some of the gases being mined leak into the >>> groundwater or out of the ground or leak out of systems designed to collect >>> and contain them. In some cases those gases are not what is being sought, >>> so they are deliberately vented or burned. Problem is, those gases are >>> themselves greenhouse gases, particularly methane, which is over 80 times >>> stronger of a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. So, what advertisers >>> quaintly named “natural†gas is anathema to nature. We know that the >>> addition of greenhouse gases to the atmosphere has caused the rising >>> atmospheric temperature, among other deleterious effects too numerous to >>> list here (but Alicia made a good start!), and those effects are in the >>> process of moving and removing bird habitats at an unprecedented pace. So, >>> we’re trying to weigh big negative consequences of large-scale, popular >>> fossil fuel use, consequences which are easy to overlook, because they are >>> either in someone else’s backyard, or they are everywhere but gradual. >>> >>> Other energy sources include nuclear. I think the same PR people who >>> coined the lie “clean coal†also were hired by the nuclear industry. >>> Technically, a nuclear power plant isn’t spewing carbon dioxide as it’s >>> main product, but it uses plenty of energy, much of which does spew CO2, >>> and it has radioactive waste which, in the time scale of human >>> civilization, never goes away. The trail of radioactive waste starts when & >>> where uranium is mined. The Native Americans who were “given†the >>> apparent wasteland where that mining later occurred now have pollution on >>> their land, in their air, and in their desert water, and they have a high >>> cancer rate. >>> >>> Natural uranium is only 0.72% U-235, the rest being U-238, but it must >>> be 2% to 5% U-235 to be used in a typical nuclear power plant (and much >>> higher for weapons). This means that the great majority of the mined >>> uranium, (the U-238 which has been “depleted†of some of it’s >>> accompanying U-235) would be waste. As of 2020 about 2 million tons of it >>> had accumulated. But the military found a use for the incredibly dense >>> metallic form. Ask the folks in Iraq about living where depleted uranium >>> shells and bullets were used. When they impact, they damage what they hit, >>> then the shattered uranium spontaneously burns when the bits are exposed to >>> air, and being a heavy metal, its oxide is toxic. And the process for >>> “enriching†the uranium for use in power plants uses a quarter of the >>> energy that the power plant would make (much more for weapons), and uses >>> fluorine, whose compounds are highly toxic and very powerful greenhouse >>> gases. Everything used during every step becomes radioactive waste. >>> What’s left over after use in a power plant is a much more diverse mess >>> that we haven’t figured out what to do with, so it accumulates in pools >>> of water on site at power plants. >>> >>> Hydropower sounds cool unless you live in the valley that is being >>> flooded or care about the fish who breed there or streamside habitats. >>> >>> I happen to think wind turbines are beautiful, and one can farm among >>> them, but I don’t live next to one, and I’ve heard that many people >>> don’t want to. Certainly the idea of a blade flying off is scary. Do wind >>> turbines kill birds? Yes. How many? Hard to tell. I once tried to help Bill >>> Evans look for dead birds below a tall radio tower after a foggy night >>> during migration. If you think seeing a warbler in a leafy tree is hard, >>> try looking for it when you have no clues from sound, movement, habitat, >>> shape, color, or pattern. The dead birds had fallen randomly in the weeds >>> below the guy wires. They looked like bits of fluff because their contour >>> feathers were completely disheveled in odd positions that often obscured >>> the wings & head. We arrived early in the morning, hoping to find them >>> before the knowledgeable local scavengers, such as skunks, foxes, and >>> crows. Some wind turbines are erected in the ocean. I doubt that the >>> remains of long-lived, slow-reproducing birds such Puffins would be found >>> below a wind turbine at sea. >>> >>> My point is that, while fossil fuel use is rapidly wrecking the climate >>> in numerous ways for people and for birds and for lots more things which we >>> care about, at the same time all energy sources when scaled up have scaled >>> up downsides, and few of us would want to live where any one of those >>> energy sources was about to be added. Furthermore, just adding solar arrays >>> doesn’t actually help the fight against climate change. To fight climate >>> change we need to stop using fossil fuels. And we haven’t been doing >>> that. >>> >>> Look at the Keeling Curve. That’s the continuous record of atmospheric >>> CO2 since 1958. It records the biosphere breathing. The CO2 level falls a >>> few parts per million every year in spring and summer as the plants in >>> the northern hemisphere photosynthesize, then the CO2 level rises in autumn >>> and winter as decay takes over. But every single year the rise has been a >>> little more than the drop. The yearly averages form a smooth upward curve. >>> It was below 320ppm in 1958 and this year it’s poised to cross 420ppm. >>> The amount of atmospheric CO2 has risen by over 50% since the start of the >>> Industrial Revolution and mass coal use, but it’s risen by about a third >>> just in my lifetime. We’ve had at least 35 years of public awareness of >>> fossil fuels, greenhouse gases, climate change, and predictions of problems >>> becoming reality, alongside a steady disinformation campaign by the fossil >>> fuel industry, who still rake in record profits, despite renewable energy >>> now being less expensive than fossil fuels. What’s our current situation? >>> According to a report from NOAA last November, we have barely slowed the >>> *increase* in the emissions of CO2. >>> >>> >>> https://research.noaa.gov/2022/11/15/no-sign-of-significant-decrease-in-global-co2-emissions/#:~:text=The%20projection%20of%2040.6%20billion,highest%20annual%20total%20ever%20recorded. >>> >>> According to that report, “Land use changes, especially deforestation, >>> are a significant source of CO2 emissions - equivalent to about a tenth of >>> the amount of CO2 coming from fossil fuel emissions.†In this annual >>> carbon accounting, “Planting new forests counterbalances half the >>> deforestation.†So, while planting trees is good, we are a very long way >>> from addressing the CO2 emissions from fossil fuels by planting trees. We >>> would need to increase that effort twenty-fold. >>> >>> The ocean will only absorb a fraction of atmospheric CO2, and the report >>> says, “the ocean’s capacity to be a sink is finite†. Furthermore, it >>> says that warming of the water is reducing its ability to absorb CO2. >>> >>> Because all types of large scale energy production are destructive, I >>> think we should do all we can, both personally, by encouraging others, and >>> by promoting policies, to increase energy efficiency, and to reduce energy >>> use. And because fossil fuels are driving climate change, we need to stop >>> using them. >>> >>> So, yes, solar arrays are ugly, and I’d rather there be land that >>> housed a diversity of birds. But all the other non-fossil-fuel options >>> seemed worse, so I get my electricity from a local solar array. At least my >>> energy use is solar on a net basis. And I conserve, with a well-insulated >>> house that doesn’t even connect to gas. My car uses fossil fuel, but it >>> is very efficient, and I rarely use it. I bicycle and walk for local trips. >>> My birding by car is limited. I drove to Troyer’s to see the spectacular >>> Scissor-tailed Flycatcher, rationalizing that I may never go to its home in >>> Texas, despite how attractive Texas birds are to me. Otherwise most of my >>> limited car-birding is also car-pooling. It’s good to get to know the >>> local neighborhood birds well. And to appreciate that traveling longer >>> distances is a luxury with costs to the things we would travel for. Keep >>> checking and eventually a rare or novel bird will come to you, like that >>> Little Gull I found by the Red Lighthouse, or a new year-yard bird like the >>> Eastern Kingbird that distracted me while I was writing this. >>> >>> - - Dave Nutter >>> >>> -- >>> *Cayugabirds-L List Info:* >>> Welcome and Basics <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME> >>> Rules and Information <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES> >>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave >>> <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> >>> *Archives:* >>> The Mail Archive >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html> >>> Surfbirds <http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds> >>> BirdingOnThe.Net <http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html> >>> *Please submit your observations to eBird >>> <http://ebird.org/content/ebird/>!* >>> -- >>> -- >>> *Cayugabirds-L List Info:* >>> Welcome and Basics <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME> >>> Rules and Information <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES> >>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave >>> <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> >>> *Archives:* >>> The Mail Archive >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html> >>> Surfbirds <http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds> >>> BirdingOnThe.Net <http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html> >>> *Please submit your observations to eBird >>> <http://ebird.org/content/ebird/>!* >>> -- >>> >> -- >> *Cayugabirds-L List Info:* >> Welcome and Basics <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME> >> Rules and Information <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES> >> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave >> <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> >> *Archives:* >> The Mail Archive >> <http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html> >> Surfbirds <http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds> >> BirdingOnThe.Net <http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html> >> *Please submit your observations to eBird >> <http://ebird.org/content/ebird/>!* >> -- >> > -- > *Cayugabirds-L List Info:* > Welcome and Basics <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME> > Rules and Information <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES> > Subscribe, Configuration and Leave > <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> > *Archives:* > The Mail Archive > <http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html> > Surfbirds <http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds> > BirdingOnThe.Net <http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html> > *Please submit your observations to eBird > <http://ebird.org/content/ebird/>!* > -- > -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
