I agree with Sarah... Conservation isn't really a wildlife issue, but a "people" issue. Humans are part of Ecology. We need to figure out how we can all get along. Kelly
On Mon, Jun 5, 2023, 6:27 PM sarah fern <fernsara...@gmail.com> wrote: > Well, there are so many sides to this issue. But no one wants to address > the elephant in the room. The most effective thing we can do is limit our > reproduction. Period. > > On Mon, Jun 5, 2023 at 1:13 PM Mary Cronk <mc...@cornell.edu> wrote: > >> Hi >> I am finding that solar/wind is another topic and maybe this is not the >> forum? >> >> I am on so many lists for sierra club... i was hoping this was not going >> to be more debating or lobbying. >> >> Mary >> >> But if it is ok with the club, then i can just not read all the posts >> relating to energy. >> But i must say, oil and gas has not been so great... just saying... >> >> >> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* bounce-127449912-78135...@list.cornell.edu < >> bounce-127449912-78135...@list.cornell.edu> on behalf of John Gregoire < >> johnandsuegrego...@gmail.com> >> *Sent:* Sunday, June 4, 2023 7:45:02 AM >> *To:* t...@ottcmail.com <t...@ottcmail.com> >> *Cc:* Carl Steckler <simmshil...@gmail.com>; CAYUGABIRDS-L < >> cayugabird...@list.cornell.edu> >> *Subject:* Re: [cayugabirds-l] Conservation vs Ecology >> >> A few points on this discussion. Firstly, wind turbine siting is not >> governed by law or even regulations. Instead there exist only >> "suggestions". The American Bird Conservancy has been fighting for many >> years to get the government to make the "suggestions" into "law" or >> "requirements". If an Environmental Impact Study is called for, then this >> is the only recourse and the best way for individuals can comment. There >> are a few wind power farms that have mechanisms in place to >> shut down during heavy migratory flights. >> >> Perhaps activists were too absorbed to suggest safe nuclear power. I have >> never understood why that industry has not hired ex Navy, or followed the >> practices of our Navy which has run nuclear power safely for decades. >> >> Agriculture is no longer small farms where "the farmers are stewards of >> the earth" but huge enterprises working on the principle of Economy of >> Mass. Locally we see this in dairy farms and their manure slurry disposal. >> To me that is a huge human health problem as well as the cause of the >> disappearance of small wetlands, diversion of streams and destruction of >> hedgerows and woodlots, all of which are highly imperiled by the recent >> SCOTUS decision. >> >> I hope that we can have such discussion without attacking each other. >> >> Pax, >> John >> >> >> >> On Sat, Jun 3, 2023 at 10:05 PM <t...@ottcmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi Carl, >> >> I see no need for any fire storm, but I do disagree with your premise. I >> want to be a climate activist precisely *because* I want to be a >> conservationist preserving what we have locally on the planet as a whole. >> Unless we can reduce climate change, it will wipe out many many more plants >> and animals - it already is doing that. The weather patterns that result, >> including extreme droughts and resulting wildfires, increased summer heat >> in many areas, warming oceans that increase the frequency and severity of >> coastal storms, sea level rise, more intense inland storms due to warmer >> air holding more moisture - all these factors lead to the destruction of >> plant and animal life with dramatic effectiveness. As you point out, even >> though some animals can move (assuming there is time and opportunity for >> them in a particular situation, and they have habitat to support them in a >> different area), plants often can't. >> >> That doesn't mean that putting a wind turbine in the middle of a known >> migration route and running it during migration is a good decision IMO. >> Similarly, building solar projects without considering the overall needs of >> grassland birds is not good conservation (although at least where I live >> the grasslands are being gobbled up by new vineyards and new housing and >> parking areas rather than solar projects). People like you who see value >> in conserving what is here can look at the options and help ensure that >> green energy projects are designed and & sited in ways that protect as much >> of the existing ecology as possible. Only if people who care & are >> knowledgeable about the damage that can be done by poor design or location >> speak up during the permitting process, and also are willing to comment >> during the regulatory process so that better regulations guide green energy >> projects, only then will those projects be undertaken in ways that minimize >> the effects on the local habitat. This doesn't mean that every grassland >> can be protected, but it could mean that there is protection for enough >> grasslands in enough different areas to ensure plenty of nesting space >> available. >> >> I hope you will take another look at this and see if maybe you don't see >> a role for yourself in ensuring that the long term survival of the plants >> and animals you clearly are devoted to is protected, and that projects are >> designed and sited with sensitivity to the local ecology. >> >> Best wishes - >> >> Alicia Plotkin >> >> >> On 6/3/2023 5:05 PM, Carl Steckler wrote: >> >> Well, let me state right out front that I am about to ignite a fire >> storm. >> >> Are we conservationists or are we ecologists? Hope to instruct things >> like green energy and the impact on wildlife. >> >> For the ecologists among you, you place a high value on green, renewable >> energy, but at the same time you are ignoring the fact that green energy is >> detrimental to wildlife and plant life >> >> Wind, turbines, kill hundreds of birds and bats every year. Both of these >> activities are illegal but the fact that it is green energy seems to >> overlook the fact that we’re destroying what we seek to keep. >> >> More and more grassland is disappearing under the covering of silicon, >> solar panels not only are the wildlife dispossessed, but so too is the >> flora. Wildlife can relocate, although it may not be to a suitable habitat, >> but the plants cannot relocate and often end up dying, because the sun that >> gives them nourishment is now blocked by solar panels >> >> Unfortunately, the argument about green energy global warming has become >> more political than environmental >> The science of green energy global warming climate change whatever you >> want to call it is flawed >> Some like to say that global warming climate change is caused by humans. >> Well, I’ve seen many studies that support that and many studies that >> disprove that. >> what I haven’t seen yet is a good scientific reason why the earth goes >> into an Ice Age and why the earth comes out of an Ice Age >> And yet again, there are many theories, but they are just that theories >> Without knowing the causes of an ice age or the causes of an ice age >> ending, we are missing a big chunk of cause-and-effect >> >> Does anyone disagree that when an ice age ends it gets warmer? >> Conversely, when an ice age starts, it gets colder and it has been doing >> that for a lot longer time than humans have been on this earth. >> >> So think about it do we want to be climate activist or do we want to be >> conservationist preserving what we have on this planet preserving the >> ecosystem that the animals and plants of this planet so desperately need >> >> I am not arguing, one way or another I have my beliefs, and you probably >> have yours. My purpose is to take a good look at the differences between >> conservation and ecology. >> Carl Steckler >> -- >> *Cayugabirds-L List Info:* >> Welcome and Basics <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME> >> Rules and Information <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES> >> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave >> <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> >> *Archives:* >> The Mail Archive >> <http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html> >> Surfbirds <http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds> >> BirdingOnThe.Net <http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html> >> *Please submit your observations to eBird >> <http://ebird.org/content/ebird/>!* >> -- >> >> >> -- >> *Cayugabirds-L List Info:* >> Welcome and Basics <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME> >> Rules and Information <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES> >> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave >> <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> >> *Archives:* >> The Mail Archive >> <http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html> >> Surfbirds <http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds> >> BirdingOnThe.Net <http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html> >> *Please submit your observations to eBird >> <http://ebird.org/content/ebird/>!* >> -- >> >> -- >> *Cayugabirds-L List Info:* >> Welcome and Basics <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME> >> Rules and Information <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES> >> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave >> <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> >> *Archives:* >> The Mail Archive >> <http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html> >> Surfbirds <http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds> >> BirdingOnThe.Net <http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html> >> *Please submit your observations to eBird >> <http://ebird.org/content/ebird/>!* >> -- >> -- >> *Cayugabirds-L List Info:* >> Welcome and Basics <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME> >> Rules and Information <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES> >> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave >> <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> >> *Archives:* >> The Mail Archive >> <http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html> >> Surfbirds <http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds> >> BirdingOnThe.Net <http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html> >> *Please submit your observations to eBird >> <http://ebird.org/content/ebird/>!* >> -- >> > -- > *Cayugabirds-L List Info:* > Welcome and Basics <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME> > Rules and Information <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES> > Subscribe, Configuration and Leave > <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> > *Archives:* > The Mail Archive > <http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html> > Surfbirds <http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds> > BirdingOnThe.Net <http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html> > *Please submit your observations to eBird > <http://ebird.org/content/ebird/>!* > -- > -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
