Maarten, yes, that's exactly what I had in mind :-)
Jonas On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 9:46 AM, Maarten Zeinstra <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Jonas, > > Dogfooding is a good way to ensure that the tools that are developed can be > used by affiliates. Basically CC.org should consider themselves as an > affiliate itself. In such a way that when a new WP theme, license selection > tool, API, etc. are developed that cc.org uses the same codebase as > affiliates can use. That probably means that some of the current systems need > to be disentangled to be used separately and disseminated among affiliates > and activist. For example, make the license selection tool a WP-plugin that > can be used by all affiliate websites. > > I think we can agree that the licenses can be excluded from the dogfooding. > However, the deed pages should be considered as a product as well and that > product needs to be as transparent as possible. One of the reasons why this > thread started.. > > Is that what you mean Jonas? > > Cheers, > > Maarten > > On Mar 5, 2013, at 8:21 , Jonas Öberg <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Maarten, >> >> something that I've always been keen to put forward is the idea that >> CC HQ ought to be using the same technology and tools as everyone >> else. This means for instance that the license chooser used on cc.org >> should not be different from the license chooser offered through the >> partner interface (they should at least be built on the same >> infrastructure) and the web site theme should be the same one used by >> the affiliates, or at least inherited from it, and so on. >> >> Do you think, if doing so, that this might help? My hunch is that it >> would necessitate a larger degree of openness and collaboration around >> common assets, which would be good. I'm not sure to what extent that >> would happen though: a lot of the work of regular maintenance and >> infrastructure would logically fall on CC HQ, but we all know how >> difficult it is to do infrastructure work if you only have manpower to >> do fire fighting. >> >> Jonas >> >> On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 12:28 AM, Maarten Zeinstra <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Thanks Bjorn, >>> >>> Another example that both Bjorn and I worked on in the past are Wordpress >>> Themes for Affiliates. It is silly that affiliates need to recreate >>> templates without support of CC International and that when we grab the >>> current theme of CC.org that the quality of the theme is lacking so much >>> that it needs a fundamental strip and rebuild before it can be used by >>> affiliates. >>> >>> Basically I am talking here about an askew relationship between tech >>> development for cc.org (basically cc US that pretends to represent the >>> globe) and its affiliates. Who (the affiliates) have turned to themselves >>> for development of tools, sites and other infrastructure as we see of the >>> low number of participants on this list. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Maarten >>> >>> >>> On Mar 4, 2013, at 12:45 , BjornW <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> +1 >>>> >>>> My experience as an external volunteer developer is the same as Maarten. >>>> This actually made me more or less stop contributing to CC. >>>> I'd also like to see a more future-proof solution where some thought has >>>> been given to prevent the mistakes from the past, instead of quick 'fixes'. >>>> >>>> grtz >>>> BjornW >>>> >>>> On 04-03-13 12:08, Maarten Zeinstra wrote: >>>>> Hi Dan, >>>>> >>>>> There is no documentation for a start. It is a very value adding >>>>> feature of the deed page but without documentation is probably >>>>> sparsely used and hard to convince third parties to use RDFa to enrich >>>>> their rights statements. >>>>> >>>>> But frankly and if you read closely this entire thread is not about >>>>> the metadata scraper. It is about the lack of transparency, direction >>>>> and general documentation, as well as leadership in the technical >>>>> infrastructure of CC. >>>>> >>>>> The entire community basically consist of recent departures from the >>>>> CC tech team and me. In recent years I've tried on multiple occasions >>>>> to contribute on the codebase/ infrastructure of CC but I always run >>>>> up to a barrier of having no central team that can support efforts to >>>>> such an extent that is adds value. >>>>> >>>>> With this thread I don't want to hear quick fixes or answers to my >>>>> direct questions. I want to receive some confirmation (in >>>>> policy/roadmaps/support) that cc-technologies is not at a dead end. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Maarten >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 19:46 , Dan Mills <[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Maarten, >>>>>> >>>>>> I actually thought I'd sent a mail to this list, but indeed, >>>>>> apparently I did not! So, let me fix that right away :) >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello. I'm Dan Mills, the new Director of Product Strategy at >>>>>> Creative Commons. In short, I'm a technical product guy with roots in >>>>>> open source and the Web. You can read a little more about me here: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://creativecommons.org/staff#danmills >>>>>> >>>>>> More specifically on roadmap--I have been reviewing the existing >>>>>> infrastructure and identifying the most urgent fixes we need to do, >>>>>> while at the same time thinking about what the forward direction will >>>>>> be and what kind of team we will need. >>>>>> >>>>>> What are the burning issues with the scraper form your POV? >>>>>> >>>>>> Dan >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wednesday, February 27, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Maarten Zeinstra wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Oh come on! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That simply is not good enough. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We CC-affiliates / open activists need to be able to do our work. I >>>>>>> raised this question because I do work for Europeana, The European >>>>>>> version of the DPLA, but 5 years ahead. they were instrumental and >>>>>>> the first adopter of the Public Domain Mark. Europeana works with >>>>>>> 2600+ cultural institutions and has about 5 million works PD/CC0 >>>>>>> marked. Now when one of those institutions mails me and asked me why >>>>>>> there is no extra metadata on PDM pages coming of Europeana, I need >>>>>>> to be able to say that there is possibly a script blocker on the >>>>>>> client side and that Europeana and CreativeCommons.org >>>>>>> <http://creativecommons.org/> are functioning properly, see this >>>>>>> page for more information (no page or documentation to be found...). >>>>>>> When I cannot do that I cannot do my job. When I cannot do my job I >>>>>>> cannot convince these institutions of the merit of CC licensing or >>>>>>> PD marking. When I cannot do that they will be less likely to use >>>>>>> the tools. That is bad for our global access to culture. (I use >>>>>>> myself as an example, this could happen to anyone who wants to >>>>>>> promote CC). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We all want more open content and correct rights labelling right? I >>>>>>> need to be able to rely on that infrastructure of CC.org >>>>>>> <http://cc.org/> to be able to do my job in this. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It is completely absurd that you cannot get your act together and >>>>>>> provide us with a decent technological infrastructure and support to >>>>>>> help convince the world that a) open content is a good way to go and >>>>>>> b) rights labelling is important and c) (most importantly) we have >>>>>>> their backs in that. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also, where is Dan Mills in all of this? He's been on the job for >>>>>>> like two months now right? Why is it that he hasn't even introduced >>>>>>> himself on this list yet? I hope he consider the licenses and their >>>>>>> backing technology as part of the product of CC.. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think it is unbelievable that you can laconically state that you >>>>>>> wish you had better answers… >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Feb 27, 2013, at 18:15 , Greg Grossmeier <[email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <quote name="Maarten Zeinstra" date="2013-02-27" time="12:18:05 +0100"> >>>>>>>>> I was wondering if there is a roadmap for the development of the >>>>>>>>> metadata scraper of the deed pages. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is on a roadmap of some sorts; I can't remember the specific >>>>>>>> timeline right now. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As of now it only support RDFa, maybe we want to add other formats as >>>>>>>>> well? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That is the idea, indeed. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Also I could find very little documentation about the workings of the >>>>>>>>> scraper directed at non-developers. Where can I point to when no >>>>>>>>> scraped information shows up because of a script blocker? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Nothing at this time :/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Wish I had better answers, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Greg >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> PS: As of Feb 19th, I now work for the Wikimedia Foundation, so my time >>>>>>>> on these type of issues will be radically lower now. >>>>>>>> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2013-February/066672.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> | Greg Grossmeier GPG: B2FA 27B1 F7EB D327 6B8E | >>>>>>>> | http://grossmeier.net <http://grossmeier.net/> A18D 1138 8E47 >>>>>>>> FAC8 1C7D | >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> cc-devel mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> cc-devel mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> cc-devel mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> met vriendelijke groet, >>>> Bjorn Wijers >>>> >>>> * b u r o b j o r n .nl * >>>> digitaal vakmanschap | digital craftsmanship >>>> >>>> Werkdagen: >>>> Van maandag t/m donderdag vanaf 10:00 >>>> Vrijdag is voor experimenteren en eigen projecten. >>>> >>>> Postbus 14145 >>>> 3508 SE Utrecht >>>> The Netherlands >>>> >>>> tel: +31 6 49 74 78 70 >>>> http://www.burobjorn.nl >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> cc-devel mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> cc-devel mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel > > _______________________________________________ > cc-devel mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel _______________________________________________ cc-devel mailing list [email protected] http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-devel
