I like to think that the reflections I carefully measured at high multiplicity are not redundant, which the dictionary on my computer defines as "not or no longer needed or useful; superfluous" and the American Heritage Dictionary as "exceeding what is necessary or natural; superfluous" and "needlessly repetitive; verbose".
Please don't use the term Needless repetitivity in your Table 1. It sends the wrong message. Multiplicity is good. All best. Andreas On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 12:03 AM James Holton <jmhol...@lbl.gov> wrote: > I have found that the use of "redundancy" vs "multiplicity" correlates > very well with the speaker's favorite processing software. The Denzo/HKL > program scalepack outputs "redundancy", whereas scala/aimless and other > more Europe-centric programs output "multiplicity". > > At least it is not as bad as "intensity", which is so ambiguous as to be > almost useless as a word on its own. > > -James Holton > MAD Scientist > > On 6/24/2020 10:27 AM, Bernhard Rupp wrote: > > > Oh, and some of us prefer the word 'multiplicity' ;-0 > > Hmmm…maybe not. ‘Multiplicity’ in crystallography is context sensitive, > and not uniquely defined. It can refer to > > 1. the position multiplicity (number of equivalent sites per unit > cell, aka Wyckoff-Multiplicity), the only (!) cif use of multiplicity > 2. the multiplicity of the reflection, which means the superposition > of reflections with the same *d* (mostly powder diffraction) > 3. the multiplicity of observations, aka redundancy. > > While (a) and (b) are clearly defined, (c) is an arbitrary experimental > number. > > How from (a) real space symmetry follows (b) in reciprocal space > (including the epsilon zones, another ‘multiplicity’) is explained here > > https://scripts.iucr.org/cgi-bin/paper?a14080 > > and also on page 306 in BMC. > > Too much multiplicity might create duplicity… > > Cheers, BR > > > > Jon Cooper > > > > On 23 Jun 2020 22:04, "Peat, Tom (Manufacturing, Parkville)" < > tom.p...@csiro.au> wrote: > > I would just like to point out that for those of us who have worked too > many times with P1 or P21 that even 360 degrees will not give you 'super' > anomalous differences. > > I'm not a minimalist when it comes to data- redundancy is a good thing to > have. > > cheers, tom > > > > Tom Peat > Proteins Group > Biomedical Program, CSIRO > 343 Royal Parade > Parkville, VIC, 3052 > +613 9662 7304 > +614 57 539 419 > tom.p...@csiro.au > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* CCP4 bulletin board <CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK> on behalf of > 00000c2488af9525-dmarc-requ...@jiscmail.ac.uk < > 00000c2488af9525-dmarc-requ...@jiscmail.ac.uk> > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 24, 2020 1:10 AM > *To:* CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK <CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK> > *Subject:* Re: [ccp4bb] number of frames to get a full dataset? > > > > Someone told me there is a cubic space group where you can get away with > something like 11 degrees of data. It would be interesting if that's > correct. These minimum ranges for data collection rely on the crystal being > pre-oriented, which is unheard-of these days, although they can help if > someone is nagging you to get off the beam line or if your diffraction > fades quickly. Going for 180 degrees always makes sense for a well-behaved > crystal, or 360 degrees if you want super anomalous differences. Hope this > helps a bit. > > Jon Cooper > > > > On 23 Jun 2020 07:29, Andreas Förster <andreas.foers...@dectris.com> > wrote: > > Hi Murpholino, > > > > in my opinion (*), the question is neither number of frames nor degrees. > The only thing that matters to your crystal is dose. How many photons does > your crystal take before it dies? Consequently, the question to ask is How > best to use photons. Some people have done exactly that. > > https://doi.org/10.1107/S2059798319003528 > > > All best. > > > > > > Andreas > > > > > > (*) Disclaimer: I benefit when you use PILATUS or EIGER - but I want you > to use them to your advantage. > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 12:04 AM Murpholino Peligro <murpholi...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Hi. > Quick question... > > I have seen *somewhere* that to get a 'full dataset we need to collect n > frames': > > at least 180 frames if symmetry is X > > at least 90 frames if symmetry is Y > > at least 45 frames if symmetry is Z > > Can somebody point where is *somewhere*? > > > > ...also... > > what other factors can change n... besides symmetry and radiation damage? > > > > Thanks > > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: > https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/WA-JISC.exe?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 > > > > -- > > Andreas Förster, Ph.D. > > Application Scientist Crystallography, Area Sales Manager Asia & Pacific > > Phone: +41 56 500 21 00 | Direct: +41 56 500 21 76 | Email: > andreas.foers...@dectris.com > > DECTRIS Ltd. | Taefernweg 1 | 5405 Baden-Daettwil | Switzerland | > www.dectris.com > > > > > > > > [image: LinkedIn] <https://www.linkedin.com/company/5067919> > > [image: facebook] > <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Dectris-Ltd/623855944369304> > <https://twitter.com/DECTRIS_News> > > > > *Confidentiality Note: This message is intended only for the use of the > named recipient(s)* > > *and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are > not the intended* > > *recipient, please contact the sender and delete the message. 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