I'm not ashamed of my country's past, but I don't excuse it either. How we treated the native Americans was wrong and morally inexcusable.
Sure, you can make a case that it was necessary to allow us to expand and grow. But the counter argument is that maybe we could have found a way to achieve the same ends without slaughtering millions of innocent people. The problem, of course, is that argument is unsustainable because it's unproveable. So, with the Indians and the slaves, and the Germans, and the Japanese, and the Chinese -- we have blemishes on our souls. But it's the past. We can only promise ourselves that we'll try to do better next time. We can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. I'm not going to give up my home in California, my car, my TV, my computer just because the Pale Faces before me were ignorant, violent men. I may even have direct ancestors who killed Indians (My mother raised me believing I'm part Indian on her side, about 4 generations back, so I must have had ancestors on the West Coast that far back). That doesn't make me culpable. But there is no comparison between the Pale Faces of the past and how they treated Indians and today's modern Jew and the modern Arab: 1) Most of what killed Indians wasn't guns, it was disease. That isn't going to happen with Arabs, short of Israel releasing a bio weapon. Since that would be roundly condemned even by the U.S., that isn't going to happen. 2) The Arabs are far more wealthy and better armed than Indians (even 50 years ago that was true). The Arabs would put up a better fight, and in none of Israel's wars did they have to take on the entire Arab world enmasse. That would be totally different than the times they kicked Egypt's or Syria's butt. 3) When our forbearers killed Indians, the world community could careless. Not so with Jews killing Arabs. As staunch an alley as the U.S. has been with Israel, we aren't going to stand for mass slaughter of Arabs, oil or no oil. The whole Middle East thing is very troubling to me. There seems to be no easy way out. As Michael and Judith have pointed out in great detail, there is much wrong with the idea of a Palestinian state and we all know that Palestine is a hotbed of hatred for Jews, and that isn't going to change overnight. On the other hand, I just can't approve of how Israel conducts itself. I feel it puts up every roadblock possible to peace. I see no attempt to encourage moderates within Palestine. And preconditions on peace talks, such as a week-long cease fire, are just stupid. At some point, one side or the other must stop retaliating. One side or the other must say enough is a enough, we're not going to fight any more. And since the Palestinians cannot possibly control all of the radicals within its borders, while Israel has a strong central command, I think the onus is on Israel to take the bold steps toward peace. Israel must order its military and its police to not return fire, to not initiate attacks, no matter what the cost. Then, Israel must immediately recognize Palestine as a separate and equal nation. This will bring great pressure on Palestine to clean up it's own act, pressure that will be hard to resist. Sure, there will always be those who seek the total destruction of Israel, but that isn't going to change any way, so why make that a factor in the peace negotiations. Maybe my plan is naive. Maybe it won't work. Maybe it will lead to total Armageddon. But you know what, the current plan isn't working any better and if things continue they way they are, Armageddon is just around the corner. H. -----Original Message----- From: Jon Hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 10:30 PM To: CF-Community Subject: Re: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( Which country is the most powerful nation in the world? America. If we had let the Indian's survive or let them stay in the land we occupied, like the Israelis let the "Palestinians" stay in 68 after they took over the occupied territories (another analogy), then we would be fighting Indian terrorists right now. The winners write the history books, not the compromisers. Every single American today is an American because we killed all of the Indians. Any American who thinks we should not have done it really can leave for all I care. I'm sure there is another most powerful nation in the world somewhere for them. The ironic thing is that if America had existed back in the 1700's and another country tried to invade the Indians homeland, we would probably send in troops and defend the Indians homeland so we could feel good about ourselves. That is America's hypocrrisy, the people want to feel good about themselves. They are probably the same ones who are ashamed of America's history too. I'm more ashamed of these people than of what we did to the Indians. These people are unintelligent. Stupidity has caused more pain and misery in our world than anything else throughout history. If Israel had taken the American example to heart they would control most of the Middle East by now, they are powerful enough. Is that a good thing? I dont know, but there would be less Islamic militants to drive planes into our buildings, and no Palestinians dancing in the streets when Americans are killed. Did you want to dance in the streets with them? I assume not, then why are you so supportive of them? They would be happy to kill every single Israeli and American, yet you side with them, because you want to take the higher road and think yourself above that kind of violence. Seems hypocritical to me. jon Angel Stewart wrote: >You SHOULD have kicked the Indians' asses? > >Right..kill the fucking indigineous people in an area so you can take >over their land and eradicate their way of life completely after landing >on THEIR shores. That's A-Ok. > >If that is what the Arabs are to Israel then go fucking Arabs. > >That's probably the most stupid and inaccurate analogy I've ever seen of >the two sides. > >-Gel > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jon Hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 8:40 PM >To: CF-Community >Subject: Re: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( > > >I just love arguments to much :) Please don't take my postings as >attacks. I was simply saying that if they can't have peace for seven >days, then a false peace is not really worth wasting any effort on. > >To further comment on my last post though, imo the Arabs are to Israel, >is like the Indians were to the first Americans. They should have kicked >the Arab's butt's a long time ago like we did the Indians. America was >founded by Puritans from England, Israel was founded by Jews from >England. Americans have much in common with Israel... > >jon > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-community@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
