can you give me an example of some of these other countries? cheers
will -----Original Message----- From: Fleischer, Beth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 05 December 2001 17:16 To: CF-Community Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( Actually, if I had my druthers the US would have removed the taliban from power long ago - we did in other countries where these types of offenses were taking place, but not in afghanistan. > -----Original Message----- > From: Will Swain [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 12:32 AM > To: CF-Community > Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( > > I think whats interesting is how the media began to demonise the Taliban > after sept 11. Granted, they don't need much deionisation, but what I find > interesting is that the governments of the west have been totally > uninterested in the Taliban's human rights offences for years. > > This is pure media manipulation. You don't have to lie to manipulate > people, > you just decide when and how you tell them the truth, and which truth you > tell them. Lots of publicity about how outrageously the Taliban treat > women, > how viciously they treat their own people, and as if by magic, everyone > thinks what a good and just idea it is to step into their country and > overthrow their government. To say it makes no difference how the facts > are > delivered is a innocent view at best. Of course it matters. The media > decide > when and what news to tell us. The have an editorial bias that begins > before > the first word is written. > > An interesting twist on this is the Northern Alliance's treatment of > foreign > Taliban prisoners of war. Last I heard there were international laws that > govern the treatment of prisoners of war. Executing them is not allowed. > Breach of human rights anyone. I just hope this doesn't come back and bite > the coalition on the arse, when news of the Northern Alliance's hideous > human rights offences starts appearing in a few years time. > > will > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: 05 December 2001 05:17 > To: CF-Community > Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( > > > I don't want to misstate what you're saying, but let me boil down for you > what I hear you saying: > > 1) The news may be factually correct, though the nuance may be off because > of entertainment values -- therefore, the "real" news is some how > obscured. > > 2) Because the "news" has been remanufactured to a degree, and no longer > reflects the raw, unvarnished truth, it is offensive to base any > conclusions > this "newstainment." > > Am I understanding you correctly? > > Therefore, we should not condemn the Taliban for beating, stoning and > murdering women because, by golly, we learned about it on a network news > show. And it was edited. And who knows what was left out. A Taliban denial > maybe? Or possibly a Taliban apology ("We didn't mean to stone those women > to death -- the rock just slipped. Sorry.") > > Is that really what you're saying. I mean, because that's what I hear you > saying. And I find it pretty offensive. > > If the facts are correct, it matters little how they are delivered. And no > amount of political correctness (in this case, the liberal mantra of we > shouldn't criticize other "cultures") can possibly justify what the > Taliban > has done to women and dissenters within Afghanistan. > > H. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Benjamin Falloon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 9:18 PM > To: CF-Community > Subject: Re: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( > > > Beth, > > I'm not certain how you arrived at such an exaggerated understanding of my > original post. But allow me at least the oppertunity to expand my > perspetive > before you sarcastically attack my posts once more, even though the > original > post was not even address to you. > > I may have refered to television (and this can be broadened to any > corporately own/operated news service) as manufactured, but I did not in > any > way insinuate that the 'stories' were myth. News services (mostly) deliver > their content in a highly constructed way. News is like coka cola; coke is > based on sugar, a 'real world' ingredient, just as the "oppression of > afghanistan women" may too be 'real world', but the end result delivered > by > the news services is nothing 'natural'... it is a manufacured construct > intentionally mixed to produce the desired effect. This is how I view > corporate news services. Most of what is aired looks no different from, > and > indeed reflects the kind of news approach highlighted by the nineties film > "Wag the Dog". > > Images are carefully selected, edited and cut with emotive music and > commentry designed to promote a certain perspective. Exactly whose > perspective/interests/politics represented are beyond the reach of this > discussion, but the net effect of these kinds of presentations are not at > all dissimilar to those effects achieved by the entertainment industry as > a > whole. > > News is entertainment/entertainment is news. I find making judgements upon > other peoples/cultures etc based on this kind of information offensive. > > I recall a previous post by Gary that brought up the lack on true > investigative reporting in the main stream news. My oppinion on the news > is > an extension of this logic. > > Benjamin > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fleischer, Beth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 12:12 PM > Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( > > > > Folks!! > > > > did you hear it! The oppression of afghanistan women is a myth, made up > by > > the media. > > > > Benjamin, I heard about the plight of afghani women several years ago > when > > an afghan woman came to speak at a university. Did she make it up too? > was > > she in on the big media conspiracy? Were the stories she told of women > > being killed for walking down the street with a man whom they weren't > > married to made up too? Were the stories of female lawyers and doctors > made > > up too? And she left afghanistan not because she was no longer > allowed > to > > practice law there, but just to spread these lies about the wonderful > > taliban rule? All those underground schools to teach girls dont' exist > > right - because under the taliban rule girls WERE allowed to go to > school? > > And all this information I received prior to 9/11 - it was made up for > WHAT > > REASON? > > > > so, all the people in afghanistan listening to music again, shaving > their > > beards, taking off their masks, they weren't really oppressed its just a > > media invention, right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > The western media is at best, extrodinatily limited in it's > representation > > > of 'real people' in the middle east (or media east as it's exists for > us). > > > Furthermore, it's representation is more often designed to promote > this > > > kind > > > of discussion by manufacture of 'stories' (one of these being the > > > celebrating Palistinians, another being the oppression of women in > > > Aphganistan for example). These stories are the developed and made > self > > > referencial, repeated over and over by all media outlets until they > become > > > the measure of oppinion polls on presidencial popularity. There > simplify > > > polarize and synthasize politics and culture for the fast food culture > > > that > > > is America. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Michael Dinowitz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 9:18 AM > > > Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( > > > > > > > > > > 1. There were a LOT more than 1 woman and 5 kids. There were PA > police > > > > taking camera's away from reporters to avoid the news from it. There > > > were > > > > letters of protest from the AP and Reuters over it. I know people > who > > > live > > > > in Israel and have first hand reports as do many others. > > > > 2. The rumor that it was old footage was debunked. It started with a > > > > student in Argentina and spread. It was real footage. > > > > 3. I don't condemn any Palestinian for the actions of some truly > sick > > > > people who take pride and happiness in the suffering of others. > > > > > > > > > > > > >As or your second quesion... > > > > >First, that clip of a women dancing and five kids > > > > >clapping there hands, I wouldnt realy know how that is > > > > >considred 'my people', last time i checked, the > > > > >Palestinian population was not reprented by a women > > > > >and 5 kids, and yes, a car passing by blowings its > > > > >horn...Second, CNN, which first aired the clip, was > > > > >and still is accused of airing an old clip which was > > > > >taking during the Iraq war, except , sadly, no media > > > > >outlet would ever let the story run, nor deny or > > > > >confirm the reports.... > > > > > > > > > >Now i dont know if that is right or wrong, I do > > > > >believe that YES, its very possible that there does > > > > >exist a palestinian women who danced in the streets, > > > > >and its so re-assuring that a camera somehow found her > > > > >dancing and aired her image, two hours after the > > > > >incident.....I would think there would be more > > > > >pressing issues at that time,but i guess a Palestinian > > > > >women supposedly dancing in the streets of > > > > >Palestine,is more important than the those tens and > > > > >thousands of casualties and the chaos that was > > > > >happening here.. > > > > > > > > > >I guess the Palestinians where just about to get there > > > > >independence and your blessings, and this women came > > > > >and screwed everything up for us!!! > > > > > > > > > >BTW, the women was kinda a heavy set, so i wouldnt > > > > >realy call it "Jumping up for Joy", the poor old lady > > > > >could barely walk, but she was eating sweets, which > > > > >does probably translate to her as jumping up for > > > > >joy!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. 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