The French revolution preceded the American revolution and they supported it, materially as well as politically. The French Revolution was largely based on the writings of Rouseeau.
On 1/11/06, Tim Heald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What about the French revolution? We aren't French, we are American's. > > Even British loyalists during and after the revolution weren't executed in > the streets here. There were some cases where a person would be killed over > their politics, but mainly they were "rail roaded" or "tar and feathered". > Not killed, not jailed, and not tortured. > > Westward expansion? Ok, so we had room to grow, to spread out, and it > allowed for a lot of innovation. How does this support your call for > welfare? > > I'm confused. If anything I think that the move westward would back the > capitalist small government argument. Thousands of people went into the > woods with nothing but weapons and supplies, no government help, and built > cities where once their was nothing. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Chesty Puller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 6:37 AM > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: Re: Next in line to be labeled Dictator by America > > > > First of all, we had westward expansion - 40 acres and a mule. > > But then think about the French Revolution. > > > > - Matt > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Loathe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "CF-Community" <cf-community@houseoffusion.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 9:59 PM > > Subject: RE: Next in line to be labeled Dictator by America > > > > > > > What? > > > > > > We didn't have a welfare system for well over a hundred > > years, but people > > > didn't run wild killing each other in the streets. They > > got jobs, or > > > their > > > family helped out, or their church. > > > > > > Tim > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Chesty Puller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 9:43 PM > > >> To: CF-Community > > >> Subject: Re: Next in line to be labeled Dictator by America > > >> > > >> > > >> I think that Gruss doesn't realize that a country without a > > >> welfare program > > >> is going to be run over by criminals killing others for gain. > > >> Case in point: > > >> New Orleans > > >> > > >> - Matt > > >> > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: "Dana" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >> To: "CF-Community" <cf-community@houseoffusion.com> > > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 7:56 PM > > >> Subject: Re: Next in line to be labelled Dictator by America > > >> > > >> > > >> > We all make mistakes and bad choices, Gruss. Some of us > > get penalized > > >> > more savagely than others. By the way, from what I > > remember, Enron > > >> > employees were not given any option for their retirement account > > >> > besides Enron stock. > > >> > > > >> > Outside of empathy though, it is generally better to take care of > > >> > social problems while they are small. For example. Bob > > Doe has worked > > >> > in the mailroom at Enron for 10 years. He is pretty good > > at his job. > > >> > Since he wants to send his kids to college (isn't that > > the American > > >> > dream?) he moonlights somewhere else. > > >> > > > >> > Enron goes kablooie through no fault of his own. I know > > your scenario > > >> > says that Bob should have gotten an MBA and a job with another > > >> > corporation but who is to say that this other > > corporation would no > > >> > thave been playing the same games with its balance > > sheet? And he would > > >> > be even more vulnerable there as a new hire. Anyway, so > > Bob can't make > > >> > his mortgage payment. Bob runs through unemployment, > > which is still > > >> > not enough to make the mortgage payment though it does > > put food on the > > >> > table (Bob being a proud sort does not want to apply for > > food stamps). > > >> > > > >> > Eventually Bob loses the house and we have Bob and his > > wife and his > > >> > kids now NEED food stamps. Except that this does not get > > them into > > >> > housing and they do the shelter system for a couple of > > years waiting > > >> > for subsidized housing to come available. Meanwhile, > > the kids wind up > > >> > at the crappiest of public schools and learn that the > > grownup world is > > >> > both arbitrary and stupid. Frustrated, they turn to drugs and > > >> > delinquency. > > >> > > > >> > Total costs under this scenario are far higher than they > > would have > > >> > been if Bob had gotten some job coaching and maybe a > > low-cost loan to > > >> > help with his mortgage payment in time for it to do him > > some good. > > >> > Sure, if he had gotten himself an MBA and a cool new job > > with Arthur > > >> > Anderson he might not be there (wait a minute).... but then again > > >> > there would always be a mailroom clerk at Enron, see my point? > > >> > > > >> > Dana > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > On 1/10/06, Gruss Gott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> >> > Dana wrote: > > >> >> > I'll agree with everything you say except granny dying in the > > >> >> > street. > > >> >> > > >> >> Here's my problem with that: granny used to be 20 and > > clearly made > > >> >> some bad decisions to get to the point you're talking > > about. You have > > >> >> to take a step back and ask, "Is it government's role > > to subsidize > > >> >> people's mistakes?" > > >> >> > > >> >> So, for example, should the guy who lost all of his > > retirement because > > >> >> he put it all into ENRON get a "do over" on the tax > > payer coin? I > > >> >> say no. > > >> >> > > >> >> I'd much rather see the majority of that money put into > > empowerment > > >> >> programs like education than I would want to see it subsidizing > > >> >> people's mistakes. (yes, yes, the education system is > > broken. So we > > >> >> fix it via privatization :) > > >> >> > > >> >> In reality, however, no matter how good your > > empowerment programs are > > >> >> you're always going to have a few problems: > > >> >> > > >> >> 1.) People that can't compete due to birth (special needs). > > >> >> 2.) People that can't compete due to consequences (drug addicts, > > >> >> alcoholics) > > >> >> 3.) People that, no matter how much you empower them, > > will still fail. > > >> >> > > >> >> So you need to shore up those holes. But not before you empower > > >> >> people by telling them they're on their own. > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:5:191866 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:5 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
