Isn't one of the drawbacks of OO architecture that it tends to use more resources? Isn't it true that people are willing to make that sacrifice to make more manageable code?
-----Original Message----- From: Michael Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 4:51 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: Re: Where are all the mid-level CF developers? As I've seen a LOT of CF code in my life, I have to agree. CF is too easy. It allows someone to get away with murder and it'll still work. That's why I'm really happy for the push in the CF world towards OO. Not that it should be followed religiously, but just learning it will force people to rethink their code. I'm also happy that I'm stuck on limited hardware. Too often people are on quad gigahertz machines with gigabytes of ram. This allows them to write poor code and not worry about performance or cleanliness. I'm on a 650mhz with 640 meg of ram. House of Fusion HAS to be written tight. I think everyone should be forced to write at least one project on inferior hardware just to force them to think of what they're doing. I think everyone should be FORCED to read a book on coding methodologies and design at least once a year. I think everyone should be FORCED to put their code up for review so others can pick it apart. Make the developer want to do it the best they can. > at the risk of being publicly yelled at, I'll also say that in my > experience, the quality of work of most CF Developers isn't deserving of > a high salary. That's not to say that there aren't Java developers who > write poor code, but Java pretty much "forces" you to use good coding > techniques moreso than CF. CF makes it easy to write "bad" code. > That's not a bad thing, unless people choose to take the easy route and > write "bad" code (whch many do). There's no reason why a CF developer > that's building complex enterprise applications shouldn't be earning as > much as a java developer building complex enterprise applications, > provided they're both competent. To be honest, most Java developers are > more competent with specific parts of java rather than all of java - > there are too many APIs and core classes to master all of them. An > "expert" CF Developer is really worth more than an "expert" java > developer in my opinion because they have complete mastery of their > environment as opposed to mastery of part and competence in the rest. > Just an observation I've had (and I've worked with A LOT of Java > developers). > > ~Simon > > Simon Horwith > CIO, AboutWeb - http://www.aboutweb.com > Editor-in-Chief, ColdFusion Developers Journal > Member of Team Macromedia > Macromedia Certified Master Instructor > Blog - http://www.horwith.com > > > > > Daniel Kang wrote: > >>If the CF developer does all thing (database design, application >>design, coding, testing, etc), how much is he/she going to be paid in, >>let's say, downtown NY? Are we understood that 50K in downtown NY is >>for CF developers who are doing only coding??? >> >>Daniel >> >>On 4/29/05, Simon Horwith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> >>>they don't always get paid less but more often than not, they do. This >>>is probably because the majority of the tasks performed by CF Developers >>>are the kinds of things that don't require you to be a competent >>>architect, programmer, or even tester. >>> >>>~Simon >>> >>>Simon Horwith >>>CIO, AboutWeb - http://www.aboutweb.com >>>Editor-in-Chief, ColdFusion Developers Journal >>>Member of Team Macromedia >>>Macromedia Certified Master Instructor >>>Blog - http://www.horwith.com >>> >>> >>>Daniel Kang wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>The fundamental question is why CF developers get paid less than >>>>others?? Perhaps, I need to switch to the Java arena! >>>> >>>>Daniel >>>> >>>>On 4/29/05, Rob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>if I wanted to pay $60-70k I could easily hire a very senior >>>>>>developers (which seem to be easier to find too!). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>A mid level J2EE developer makes 100K+ easy in SF where the cost of >>>>>living is less than in NY... where do you think all the CF developers >>>>>went? >>>>> >>>>>I am a senior developer and I find 60K rather insulting - Fast food >>>>>restaurant managers make more than that. If you can get a senior >>>>>developer for 60K I'd say grab him/her. >>>>> >>>>>(PS not to start an up roar - look at the cost of living in your area >>>>>before you start demanding higher salary) >>>>> >>>>>-- >>>>>~Blog~ >>>>>http://www.robrohan.com >>>>>~The cfml plug-in for eclipse~ >>>>>http://cfeclipse.tigris.org >>>>>~open source xslt IDE~ >>>>>http://treebeard.sourceforge.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:11:2484 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/11 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:11 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
