Hats Off to you, Joey, for some serious gap-filling. What's "Chat" for, if
it isn't for war stories?

This post will be one of my major references for my multi-volume
work-in-progress: "The Paucity Of Evidence For Intelligent Design In The
Evolution Of Computers."

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 4:43 AM, Joey K Tuttle <[email protected]> wrote:

> I have followed this galloping thread and finally nostalgia is causing me
> to add to the detritus.
>
> For the last 50+ entries in the thread, I've been wondering -
>
> Did this [d]evolving discussion answer the original questions, asked a
> month ago, by "Jane the novice of J" <[email protected]> ?
>
> Or, did it cause Jane to run away from the forum laughing or ???
>
> Jane (if you are still around), what say you?
>
> Clearly Jane's questions piqued a lot of comments.
>
> The APL character set has been an interest of mine for quite a long time.
> I, like many others, learned APL without having access to the APL
> characters (using an IBM1050 connected by phone, at 134.5 baud, to the
> "original" APL machine at IBM Yorktown Heights Research Labs - I was
> working for IBM in Boulder CO c. 1969)
>
> About the Selectric Type element - it came in two variations,
> Correspondence (IBM P/N 1167987) and BCD (P/N 1167988). The order of
> characters was different - the BCD variation was the only one supported on
> the 1050. The much classier 2741 was aimed at office workers rather than
> computer programmer/operators and introduced the Correspondence code set.
> If you were ordering a 2741 and specified the type element to be one of the
> APL ones, that determined the code set used to communicate with the
> mainframe. When using a 2741, APL (thanks to RDMoore) noted the first typed
> character in a login e.g.  the ) in  )2001:woohoo and selected the
> appropriate character table to deal with BCD versus Correspondence coding.
> If the first line was just the character  )   then a line of overstrikes
> was made to obscure the login credentials. Lots of people rolled the paper
> up so they could reveal their login if they needed to check for typing
> errors.
>
> An amusing side effect was that TSO (Time Sharing Option of the  IBM 360
> OS, where hundreds of key pounding programers were engaged in the
> development of FS mentioned in an earlier message) would only support BCD
> coded communications. So, if someone ordered a 2741 with APL element 987,
> then TSO users were excluded from using that device ... Well, actually, the
> programmers usually called for a service guy to convert the 2741 to BCD
> which required mechanical replacement of the bars connecting the keyboard
> to the internal mechanisms (an hour or 2 of tedious work) to allow the
> terminal to work with TSO...
>
> Here is a picture of an APL (BCD) Selectric type element -
> http://bpi.1e6.com/APL988.jpg
>
> The discussion of printing APL at high speed also evoked lots of memories.
> My first job at IBM was testing the 1403N1 printer and the UCS feature
> (this was before APL existed...) A side note is that the UCS feature, which
> allowed the novel ability to print upper and lower case letters, was
> developed in part because a famous televangelist wanted to buy one to send
> large numbers of personalized letters to his flock. The individually
> replaceable type elements on the 1403 train (versus the chain, actually a
> belt with type elements affixed to it, of earlier models) made APL support
> possible. Here is a picture of some 1403 type slugs (as they were called)
> with APL characters on them -  http://bpi.1e6.com/1403_UCS_APL.jpg
>
> You can see that the slugs travelled on a monorail and were gear driven
> (pushed) around an oblong track. There were 132 hammers (in a 13.2 inch
> span), on the other side of the 14 inch wide inked ribbon and fanfold
> paper. Those hammers being triggered, at the appropriate instant, to slam
> the paper against the ribbon and type slug. It was a very noisy operation,
> the model N1 had much larger covers designed to reduce the noise. Some
> clever people learned to play tunes on the 1403 by carefully arranging the
> text being printed... You can read more about various models of the 1403
> at  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_1403
>
> Researching this stuff turned up some interesting pages that dive into
> things about APL and its characters and keyboards -
>
> http://www.rexswain.com/aplinfo.html
>
> Here is some information about the 2741 in general (including mention of
> APL) -
>
> https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72ved
> xjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/IBM_2741.html
>
> Ahh, the "good old days" ..
>
>
>
> > On 2018Jun 17, at 11:07, Don Guinn <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > When STSC came out with an APL for the PC I got quite good at reading the
> > extended ASCII characters as their APL equivalent. It was really great
> when
> > I finally broke down and bought the APL character generator chip from
> STSC.
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 10:26 AM Devon McCormick <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> The APL print train we had on our IBM line-printers was adapted from a
> >> "library" chain because it had Greek letters on it.  If you ever looked
> at
> >> the chain after it had been in use for a while, you would see one shiny,
> >> unused character on it: the lower-case lambda which was a remnant of the
> >> original chain but was not used in APL.
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 10:15 AM, Robert Bernecky <
> >> [email protected]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> A few points:
> >>>
> >>> - The BGT (Blasted Goldball Terminals) were indeed noisy, but
> >>>   they did make a better carbon copy than the 327X screens.
> >>>
> >>> - I wrote what was the first "teletype support" for SHARP APL,
> >>>  I think in 1972 or 1973, for our University of Toronto in-house site.
> >>>  Character mapping, was a nightmare, and none of us (Roger Moore
> >>>  and I)  were never happy with any of the schemes we used for them.
> >>>
> >>> - The APL-ASCII terminals came along later, in two flavors -
> "bit-paired"
> >>>  and "typewriter-paired", due to the terminal manufacturers' inability
> >>>  to agree on anything. These were either dot-matrix terminals
> >>>  or "print wheel"-based ones. I think the latter were made possible by
> >>>  the advent of small, inexpensive stepping motors.
> >>>
> >>> - We did have APL print trains on the 1403N1 printers with UCS.
> >>>  The earlier 1403 printers, with print chains, did not have APL,
> >>>  so this was A Great Advance.  The print chains were not amenable
> >>>  to local mods, but the trains had print slugs that you could replace,
> >>>  to make a custom character set.
> >>>
> >>> Bob
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 2018-06-17 04:18 AM, Ian Clark wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> At the IBM Scientific Centre in Peterlee we had 3270-series terminals
> >> for
> >>>> APL characters from 1975, I'm pretty sure. But I learned my APL around
> >>>> 1973
> >>>> on an EBCDIC-only 3277. No, I didn't use that absurd curly bracketed
> >>>> notation – the first mainframe APL I used was APLSV, which had
> separate
> >>>> 256-byte input- and output-tables as editable text files. If you had a
> >>>> spare afternoon you could customise them however you liked, and I
> >>>> cobbled-up a usable APL alphabet (small-e for epsilon, small-i for
> iota,
> >>>> etc) omitting the rarer characters like domino and covering them if
> >>>> needed,
> >>>> or copy/pasting the character from quadAV.
> >>>>
> >>>> When at last I was able to type real APL characters I didn't take to
> >> them
> >>>> at all – I couldn't read the code.
> >>>>
> >>>> But nobody ever read the code. APL was proud of being a Write-Only
> >>>> language. But I felt the shame. There I was, able to read assembly
> code
> >> as
> >>>> fluently as a newspaper, but I couldn't read an APL program I had just
> >>>> written.
> >>>>
> >>>> Fortunately I never had to use one of those blasted golfball terminals
> >>>> which sounded like a tommy gun. They were in heavy use by our project
> >>>> partners ADSS Mohansic for prototyping software (in APL) intended for
> >> the
> >>>> hush-hush FS (Future-Series) mainframe. When you walked into their
> lab,
> >>>> with a hundred APL programmers all beavering away, the noise was
> >>>> deafening.
> >>>>
> >>>> In those days computers were IPL-ed daily (Initial Program Load-ed) –
> >> and
> >>>> the FS prototype took longer and longer to IPL as emulation piled on
> >>>> emulation (I think they were using APL to emulate the instruction
> set!)
> >>>> Eventually it exceeded 24 hours, at which point the project was
> >> cancelled,
> >>>> to great staff and customer consternation.
> >>>>
> >>>> So the story goes.
> >>>>
> >>>> Shortly afterward, on one of my regular transatlantic jaunts, I
> referred
> >>>> airily in conversation to an "Iverson Ball". My interlocutor, a
> >> born-again
> >>>> evangelical, curtly informed me it was called the Iverson Printing
> >>>> Element.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ian
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 10:26 PM, Don Guinn <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Other problems. Never heard of a print train with APL characters for
> >> high
> >>>>> speed printers. Had to have a special type ball for Selectric
> >>>>> typewriters.
> >>>>> It wasn't until the late 1970's that teletype matrix terminals
> started
> >>>>> supporting APL characters. Likewise for 3270 monitors.
> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> >>>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/
> forums.htm
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> >>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/
> forums.htm
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Robert Bernecky
> >>> Snake Island Research Inc
> >>> 18 Fifth Street
> >>> Ward's Island
> >>> Toronto, Ontario M5J 2B9
> >>>
> >>> [email protected]
> >>> tel:       +1 416 203 0854
> >>> text/cell: +1 416 996 4286
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Devon McCormick, CFA
> >>
> >> Quantitative Consultant
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
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