[chhattisgarh-net] Digest Number 1646

Sat, 11 Oct 2008 05:16:28 -0700

Title: chhattisgarh-net

Messages In This Digest (5 Messages)

Messages

1a.

Re: about the use of appropriate language

Posted by: "Rajeev" [EMAIL PROTECTED]   raajeevkhob

Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:02 am (PDT)

Is it accpetable to call all SPO's rapist, murderer and violent of human
rights. Did all SPO's and all salawa judum supporter committed this crime.
What evidence were given to call all SPO's rapist not only in Chhattisgarh
but all the way to USA. When people crtitise your policy then call them
hate, is this the acceptable way of writing. People who do not go on the
theory of some organization then call then hindu nationalist, Is this the
accpetable way of writing. People who wants to fight against naxalite and
you call them state sponsered terrorism with a fake evidence. Is it healthy
way of discussion or just opposition because of opposition.
When who beleive that Industrilization bring prosporerity, call then
nonsense ( use other word like people who dont want to beleive, its the same
way of saying that you dont have mind and only I have mind ). Is it only
only your beleive is correct. People who see and realize that
Industralization brought prosperioty, are their beleive is not correct
? Without using the word you want to say that supporter of
Industrilization dont know any thing and associate them with genocide and
displacement with people . Is this correct ? Lot of time people have said '
this guy has been exposed ". Is this the acceptable way of writing.
The whole talk of acceptable way of writing is complex but definetely
calling directly to someone as 'shameless' is definitely not acceptable.

Rajeev

On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 2:56 PM, shankar_blume <shankar_blume@yahoo.de>wrote:

> hello smita and others,
> what is actually the use of proper language? to call somebody or some
> groups who are
> critical of state policy or hindu nationalism as pro pakistan and pro
> terrorists , is that part
> of acceptable way of writing? almost everybody who has been critical of
> salwa judum have
> been called supporters of maoists and of terrorism by some members on this
> forum
> without any shred of evidence or any basis whatsoever, is that part of
> acceptable way of
> writing? people who dont care to understand that industrialisation has been
> nothing but
> genocide and destruction of adivasi people and of other living beings, have
> attacked
> anybody who has expressed concern for the adivasis as leftists and maoist
> supporters
> and so on, is that part of the norms of debate?
> on this forum are people who are unabashed supporters of the ruling elites
> and also of
> hindu nationalism and its pogromist , jingoist militarist politics and
> those who support
> genocidal industrialisation. and often these are the same people who derail
> any
> meaningful discussion and concern with talk of pro pakistan pro terrorists
> pro maoists
> and leftists and a host of other epithets and abusive descriptions.
> when sanjeev mahajan writes appropriately shameless for some persistent and
> pernicious
> style of writing that becomes abusive? by the by i just want to make it
> clear that i am a
> critic of leftism and progress and i am no supporter of any leftist
> organisations. but for me
> it is clear that there are here on the forum partisans of the rich and the
> ruling elites and
> the status quo and there are those who are critical of that. i understand
> being a
> moderator is not easy but please dont apologise so one sidedly and so
> quick. the whole
> talk of appropriate language is very complex in this context. there is no
> need to be
> defensive.
> regards
> shankar
>
>
>

--
Rajeev
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2a.

Re: Chhattisgarh Police Chief at Berkeley: A Report

Posted by: "G MANJU SAINATH" [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:09 am (PDT)

My question is still unanswered - why Maoists had sent letter directly to Dr
Binayak Sen, General Secretary of the PUCL or the PUDR three years back
instead of informing media. Is it not so that Dr Binayak Sen allowed himself
to be used by the Maoists to provide them a cover on the pretext of human
rights violations?

On 10/6/08, Sanjeev Mahajan <veejnasnajaham@gmail.com> wrote:

> Not since the days of McCarthy have I seen as brazen red-baiting as I
> see here.
>
> >The US should be prepared to see another 9/11, not by Osama this time but
> by the Maoists,
> > who have holed up in Berkeley.
>
> A tried and tested tactic of demagogues is to avoid responding to the facts
> or arguments
> presented, and instead attack the person making the arguments. Call them a
> Red,
> a Maoist, and the assumption is that the opponent will be so cowed down by
> the dreaded label, that they would be forced to concede defeat. Sorry, Mr.
> Manju
> Sainath, these dirty tricks won't work here.
>
> Mr Manju Sainath is also shameless enough to insinuate (although he is too
> cowardly to come
> out and say it openly) that Dr Binayak Sen deserves to be in prison for his
> 'Maoist leanings' whatever that means.
>
> Sanjeev
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 3:22 AM, G MANJU SAINATH <gmanjusainath@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I remember my visit to Dr Binayak Sen's residence three years
>> ago..............
>>
>
>
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2b.

Re: Chhattisgarh Police Chief at Berkeley: A Report

Posted by: "Rajeev" [EMAIL PROTECTED]   raajeevkhob

Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:35 am (PDT)

Reply to mail of Salini:

*For people on this list, who are not aware of our work, we welcome you
to visit our webpage
**www.friendsofsouthasia.org*<http://www.friendsofsouthasia.org/>
* and check out what we
do. We certainly don't need to explain/ defend our politics; nor do
we want to be used as an excuse to deflect attention from the real
issues at hand.*

A quick glimps of website will tell you that they have nothing about
naxalite menance and the human rights violation by naxalites.

* It wasn't Vishwaranjan, the poet, painter
and individual, who was being asked questions at Berkeley--it was the
DGP of the state responsible for executing, implementing and
influencing some of the most repressive policies. *
**
When you talk about Binayk Sen, you talk about a social worker and a member
of some human rights organization but not as a person accused of providing
logistics support to naxalites. What a double standard .
**
*The issues raised at the conference reflect concerns of a large number
of individuals and groups, and need to be openly addressed and
acknowledged:*
**
What is large number here, 50 or maximum 100 who attended the conference
where most of them are shown only one side story of salva judum. Human
rights violation by naxalites are completely ignored. In Chhattisgarh
thousands of people are asking why this human rights organization do not
march rally to protest against violence of naxalites and why they organize
railly to protect a person accused of supporting naxalite. Do the concern of
this people should not be addressed ?
**
*1. The faculty wrote a long letter to the DGP laying out their
concerns. **http://tinyurl.com/3mywo7* <http://tinyurl.com/3mywo7>* This is
a well-thought out
letter and deserves an answer.*
**
What report were shown to these faculty members ? Do they read all the
report and signed it or simply signed because one of his friend farwarded
this message with his permission for including his name in the report.
Purposely , protest letter included selective pessage from different report
and NHRC report which said that Traibels has every right to defened themself
against naxalite menance is purposefully excluded from the report. Do these
faculty members are fully aware about the sitution in Chhattisgarh ?
With signature can they attest that I have compltely gone throught all the
report, I am watching the situation of Chhattisgarh for a long time and if
anything written in the protest is found to be wrong then I will take the
personal responsbility for signing the false protest letter. Or atleast can
you ask these faculty members to send message in this group saying that
I have signed the report with full sense and I am completely agree with the
protest letter ? Lets see how many faculty member can accept this challenge
and ready to answer the questions raised in this forum.

Do the same faculty member will raise against the crime and violence done by
naxalites ? Why these faculty members are silent on naxalite menance.

**
*2. Several groups got together to prepare this long list of questions
for the DGP -- this was circulated amongst the audience:
**http://tinyurl.com/5493d3* <http://tinyurl.com/5493d3>
*Only a few of these questions could be actually asked during the
conference, and fewer yet got answered.*
**
Who are these several groups. All left supporters or sympathiser of
naxalites ?
**
*3. Dipti, on behalf of student and community groups, asked the DGP
three specific questions in her speech:
**http://tinyurl.com/3vewvm*<http://tinyurl.com/3vewvm>
* It
would be good to hear some answers to those.*
**
Calling a accused of supporting naxalite, a political prisinor. What the
joke. Do dipti has invented new definition of political prisnor ?

*The defenders of the DGP would do better by addressing some of the
substantive questions above-- questions that are of significant
importance to people on this list -- rather than questioning the
intent of the questioners.*

*In the interests of pushing this conversation onwards, I would really
appreciate hearing from G. manju sainath/ rajeev / viji123, and others
participating in this thread, on the following:*
*1. Is there a difference between state and extra-state violence? When
naxalites commit atrocities, you have the state to turn to. But when
the state commits atrocities, where does one go? Isn't that reason
enough why Human Rights groups should be more vigilant towards the
state?*
**
In indian constitution there is court and law where you can reach against
state-violence. However, when the supporter of naxalites and even some
naxalites and some terrorist hide their face behind the Human Rights
organization then common people should not be vigilant against those fake
human rights organization. Remember that large number of recently
caugth SIMI terrorists have done the course of human rights and they have
given special instructions to take help of human rights organizations and
social activitis if they ge caught and try to be innocent ). Also, human
rights organizations shoudl be suppose to be who is talking truth and not
lies to support their ideological believe and just to get funds write and
prepare report withiout accountability. Remember the NHRC reports has
revealed that most of the allegations handed over by salva judum opposer
were false. Not only false but they included even those names which were
actully killed by naxalites. Few people who died oftheir naturar death were
included in the list. Should not we oppose those people who are giving fake
lists. And what is their accountability ? Will they be prosecuted by any
court for giving false list. If these human rights people do not have
accountability then how much trust people can have on them.

*2. Can the fight against naxalites be taken as an excuse to deprive
hundreds of thousands of adivasis of their livelihood, their villages,
their neighbours and displace them from their ancestral lands; while
enriching the corporations? How much "collateral damage" are we
willing to accept before the costs of this war become too high?*
**
First propagate theory and send some fake human rights group to support your
view that all the people have been displaced. Is it not a governments duty
to provide security to the people who wants to fight against naxalite
menance. And do you have any statistics to show that how many people are
displaced forecefully and how many people joined camp volunteerly ? Now you
remembe the cost is high. And what you were doing when naxalites were
killing innocent people ? Did you take any action when naxalite were violent
? You see high cot only when people stand themself to fight against
naxalites. What are you doing to remove naxalites in other region of the
country. You remember bastar only because people raise against
naxalites. Will the berkely organize a conference on how to fight against
naxalites ? Or they will open their eyes only when there is war between
naxalites and people opposing naxalites.

*3. Receiving letters from Maoists is not a crime. Even under the
CSPSA. Insisting that the laws of the land be applied to equally
applied to all is not a crime. Ensuring that the police do not act
with impunity is not a crime. So exactly what point is being made by
the repost of a 3-year old PR released by Dr. Binayak Sen? Yes,
friends and relatives of *all* people "disappeared" by the government
write to human rights groups as their first line of support--not just
Maoists-- and the human rights groups are duty-bound to do whatever is
within their means to ensure that the police do not abuse their power.
Why is it surprising that Dr. Sen responded with alacrity when he
received information about a disappeared Maoist?*
**
Why moist believe more on Binayak Sen ? Is it becausse he is sympathatic to
the naxalites ?
**
**
*4. If the questions to the DGP are valid questions, how does it matter
that the group asking them is "Jihadi, terrorist, Maoist, Leftist,
Saudi-Pakistan-China loving, anti-india"? And if the questions are
invalid, aren't you folks better off demonstrating how and why they
are invalid? All of us could learn with such a discourse.*
**
You could have learned more by healthy discussion in Berkeley univeristy to
fight against naxalites as well.But what you did, shouting slogan, marching
protest and propagating all over the world with destorted story of berkeley
visit claiming that DGP has signed a post card to free Binayk Sen. Any
debate will be usefull if a person will throw their idiological belief
and join the fruitfull discussion but when people with biased mind with
their pre conceived theory then any demonstration is bound to be rejected by
them. If you keep on referring the selected passages from the reports then
where discussion will go ? Moreover, can you bring and address the concern
of people of Chhattisgarh and address them without your pre convinced mind
? Do the concern of common people of Chhattisgarh will be heard in this
forum ? Did you ever try to know what the common people of Chhattisgarh are
thinking about BInayak Sen and Salva judum ? Our first priority should be
here to bring the concern of common people of Chhattisgarh and not on
talking about concern of pre convinced mind with ideological believe of some
group of people who dont even try to understand the concern of common people
of Chhattisgarh.

*FOSA is certainly fallible, and the stances taken by various human
rights groups can be improved upon as well, as we all learn and evolve
our understanding. But this kind of hate-filled exchange of emails on
this list, which is more concerned about scoring cheap points than
pushing our collective understanding ahead, is not helping.*

Also, all the emails concern only with Binayak Sen and Salawa Judum is not
helping any more to the common people of Chhattisgarh. Is there only salawa
judum and Binayak sen is the issue in Chhattisgarh ? An the people who are
keep on posting mails related to Binayak Sen and Salwa Judum ? What are they
doing ? They come and post message here only on this issue and then flee.
Are not they utilizing this group for scoring their cheap points.

Rajeev.

On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 2:02 AM, Shalini Gera <shalinigera@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 9:35 PM, viji123 <ahvenkitesh@gmail.com<ahvenkitesh%40gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> > Most readers may not be aware of FOSA's activities. It is basically a
> > San Franciso based leftist organization anti India and pro China and
> > Pakistan.
>
> As a member of FOSA, I am happy to debate the politics of FOSA (which
> we have done with the Sanghi crowd on many other listservs), but this
> discussion thread is about the DGP's visit to Berkeley.
>
> For people on this list, who are not aware of our work, we welcome you
> to visit our webpage www.friendsofsouthasia.org and check out what we
> do. We certainly don't need to explain/ defend our politics; nor do
> we want to be used as an excuse to deflect attention from the real
> issues at hand.
>
> I am sure everyone on this list can well appreciate the importance of
> holding public officials accountable for their actions. This is not
> an act of hostility or animosity--just the basic task of responsible
> citizenry in a democracy. It wasn't Vishwaranjan, the poet, painter
> and individual, who was being asked questions at Berkeley--it was the
> DGP of the state responsible for executing, implementing and
> influencing some of the most repressive policies. For those who worry
> that the DGP might have "confessed" under pressure, or become
> flustered under duress, please watch the entire 2 hour recording of
> the session here:
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7982112537676507529&hl=en and
> tell us where the norms of a civilized debate were transgressed.
>
> The issues raised at the conference reflect concerns of a large number
> of individuals and groups, and need to be openly addressed and
> acknowledged:
>
> 1. The faculty wrote a long letter to the DGP laying out their
> concerns. http://tinyurl.com/3mywo7 This is a well-thought out
> letter and deserves an answer.
>
> 2. Several groups got together to prepare this long list of questions
> for the DGP -- this was circulated amongst the audience:
> http://tinyurl.com/5493d3
> Only a few of these questions could be actually asked during the
> conference, and fewer yet got answered.
>
> 3. Dipti, on behalf of student and community groups, asked the DGP
> three specific questions in her speech: http://tinyurl.com/3vewvm It
> would be good to hear some answers to those.
>
> The defenders of the DGP would do better by addressing some of the
> substantive questions above-- questions that are of significant
> importance to people on this list -- rather than questioning the
> intent of the questioners.
>
> In the interests of pushing this conversation onwards, I would really
> appreciate hearing from G. manju sainath/ rajeev / viji123, and others
> participating in this thread, on the following:
>
> 1. Is there a difference between state and extra-state violence? When
> naxalites commit atrocities, you have the state to turn to. But when
> the state commits atrocities, where does one go? Isn't that reason
> enough why Human Rights groups should be more vigilant towards the
> state?
>
> 2. Can the fight against naxalites be taken as an excuse to deprive
> hundreds of thousands of adivasis of their livelihood, their villages,
> their neighbours and displace them from their ancestral lands; while
> enriching the corporations? How much "collateral damage" are we
> willing to accept before the costs of this war become too high?
>
> 3. Receiving letters from Maoists is not a crime. Even under the
> CSPSA. Insisting that the laws of the land be applied to equally
> applied to all is not a crime. Ensuring that the police do not act
> with impunity is not a crime. So exactly what point is being made by
> the repost of a 3-year old PR released by Dr. Binayak Sen? Yes,
> friends and relatives of *all* people "disappeared" by the government
> write to human rights groups as their first line of support--not just
> Maoists-- and the human rights groups are duty-bound to do whatever is
> within their means to ensure that the police do not abuse their power.
> Why is it surprising that Dr. Sen responded with alacrity when he
> received information about a disappeared Maoist?
>
> 4. If the questions to the DGP are valid questions, how does it matter
> that the group asking them is "Jihadi, terrorist, Maoist, Leftist,
> Saudi-Pakistan-China loving, anti-india"? And if the questions are
> invalid, aren't you folks better off demonstrating how and why they
> are invalid? All of us could learn with such a discourse.
>
> FOSA is certainly fallible, and the stances taken by various human
> rights groups can be improved upon as well, as we all learn and evolve
> our understanding. But this kind of hate-filled exchange of emails on
> this list, which is more concerned about scoring cheap points than
> pushing our collective understanding ahead, is not helping.
>
> Thanks,
> -Shalini
>
>
>

--
Rajeev
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Messages in this topic (12)
3a.

Re: Salwa Judum gets NHRC clean chit, Naxals the blame

Posted by: "rajshreejyoti" [EMAIL PROTECTED]   rajshreejyoti

Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:11 am (PDT)

If you will see the report with naxal point of view you will not
find anything which encourage you.


--- In chhattisgarh-[EMAIL PROTECTED]com, Pravin Patel
<reachppatel@...> wrote:
>
> Dear all
>  
> I am astonished to see the news in one of the recently launched
News channel from Raipur that the Supreme Court has given clean chit
to the state government.

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Messages in this topic (4)
4.

Revenge of a woman

Posted by: "alok putul" [EMAIL PROTECTED]   alokputul

Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:19 pm (PDT)

सरगुजा, छत्तीसगढ़ की सोनाबाई की ससुराल में जब बंटवारा हुआ तो उन्हें बस्ती से
दूर, खेतों के पास नया घर बनाना पड़ा. न आस पड़ौस, न घर में कोई बोलने वाला.
लेकिन अपने अधूरे, सूने मकान और उसमें अपने अकेलेपन के इर्द-गिर्द सोनाबाई ने
जीवन का ऐसा मेला रचा जिसमें तमाम ऋतुएँ, त्यौहार, जंगल, खेत-खलिहान लहलहा उठे.
अपने अकेलेपन से ऐसा मौलिक प्रतिशोध ? read more-

http://www.raviwar.com/news/90_sonabai-chhattisgarh-shampashah.shtml
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