it doesnt matter they can titer to check for antibodies... you can not be " more immune" or "boosted" you are immune or you are not. titers proves if you need a vaccine or not... they have proof a vaccinated dog after 2 shots for anything has and sheds enough in stool and hair and drool etc that it can build antibodies in unvaccinated sibling litter mates when sequestered together!...so selling boosters for anything is for money not immunity. once the puppy series is on board. including rabies. but the "law" hasnt caught up is all..over vaccinating is the leading cause of illness and death second only to kibble and fast food, in people and dogs and cats. . darcy
--- On Thu, 11/18/10, Peggy & The Girls <[email protected]> wrote: From: Peggy & The Girls <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Chihuahuas] OK, lets talk Raw Feeding again.. To: [email protected] Date: Thursday, November 18, 2010, 1:04 AM Well Deanna, that settles it.... I am moving to a mountain, that way I don't have to worry about all the little pesties!! I read the Jean Dodds protocol a couple of months ago, among a lot of other reads on the subject. Some where else their was reference to her stating that shelter dogs, rescue dogs, and strays should have a booster every 3 years and at least 2x, since you don't know if they had their shots in a series as a puppy. She felt that this giving a booster 2x over the course of six years would insure full immunity providing the dog is healthy to begin with. I know she and a lot of Vets don't think that dogs need more then 1 rabies shot for their life, based upon rabies hasn't been seen in dogs for almost 20 yrs. The problem is they can't prove that it is simply because dogs are vaccinated or because they are vaccinated on a regular bases. This past summer was Princess 3 yr rabies shot. I never had a dog that had any type of reaction to a rabies shot before this. Princess drove herself and me crazy for two days. She was very restless and extremely clingy, which she is normally not clingy at all. She acted like she was always searching for something but didn't know what. Her attention span on anything including eating was constantly cut short by her abruptly stopping short and searching for something and then she would go eat a little and then come back to me for attention and help. She was during this even in the middle of the night. I don't believe it was the vaccine in itself, but rather the side effects of a contaminated batch. I did use Petco's clinic since the shots were only $12.00 and I did see him open up a new syringe before he gave it to her. We have to beware of the fact that even Vets will re-use a syringe to say a few pennies. So I think the next time I will pay the extra and go to my Vet for their Rabies and hope the outcome is better. Gigi is still due for her rabies shot, and I am nervous about it. But the only way they know as to whether a dog has it or not is if you get a town license first, then every year you have to renew the license and submit proof of a rabies shot. Princess came from a town shelter so I have no choice with her. ♥ Peggy & The Girls ♥ -----Original Message----- From: Deanna Corey <[email protected]> To: Chihuahuas <[email protected]> Sent: Wed, Nov 17, 2010 11:40 pm Subject: Re: [Chihuahuas] OK, lets talk Raw Feeding again.. [2 Attachments] [Attachment(s) from Deanna Corey included below] Peggy...I just love you!!! You are so sweet!!! I know...euthanized dogs and cats???? It just makes me sick...but unfortunately it is true. We visited the main rendering plant years ago for Purina...it was so disgusting!!! I know they have had to do a little "cleaning up" due to media outcry but still...not good enough for me LOL! I saved an excellent post on Heart Worm...and actually how difficult it can be and how so many issues need to be just right for HW to develop in your dog...I will attach it to this eamil...very good reading!!! and really worth keeping in a file somewhere! Our area does not have extreme HW issues so for me the risk of the meds is greater than the actual infestation itself. Also HW treatments have come a LONG ways in the last 5 years...I test yearly and would just treat if needed. I like those odds better! We are so very fortunate to not have fleas here!!! The joke on the mountain is that they blow up as you come up the mountain as they can't survive the altitude...we are at 6500 ft. LOL.... As for shots...no boosters for me. They get their series as puppies starting later than some protocols...the normal Dr Jean Dodd protocol is what we go by and then we are done! We do rabies every 3 years after a year here and that I do do..lol I said do-do!!! As far as GiGi's teeth??? I think your kinda stuck there...unless of course you try out those new doggie-dentures I see advertised!!! LOL!!! I am glad you found a food you are happy with...Wellness seems to have a good rating from the feed guide I use to use...I will attach that here as well...it is great for when you are trying to evaluate foods to try. Thanks for your sweet kindness!!!! Waggin' Tails in The Dog Park, Deanna and The Dog Park Pack: Nugget, Shuai-Li, Mouse, Myrtle, Mable, and Caleb and honorary non-dog members of The Dog Park: Stella-Macaw, Stanley-Amazon, Miles the cat www.joys4toys.com From: Peggy & The Girls <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wed, November 17, 2010 6:30:36 PM Subject: Re: [Chihuahuas] OK, lets talk Raw Feeding again.. Hi Deanna, as usual, you have a wonderful way with words to explain things simply. (for the simple minded me, thank you, Lol!) I had forgotten that they used road kill and rendering plants. I kinda remember reading something on that once and that supposedly it even included euthanized dogs from shelters. I probably put it out of my head because I didn't know whether it was true or not and the thought of it made me sick to boot. When I feed Iams, it was back in the 70s-80s, early 90s. I guess a lot of things were different then with the dog foods. Today everyone is cutting cost and using garbage. Just like back then, I don't remember hearing about HW either. I still don't understand how mosquitoes didn't carry the disease then, but do now, unless it is a different type of mosquito. Do you give your dogs HW and use any type of flea control? As far as the shots go, for me I decided to put them both on a three year protocol for both the Booster and the rabies. My state allows the three yr rabies, so I am lucky. Right now both of my dogs are on Wellness chicken, I switched them two months ago. Princess poop looks better, before she seem to be having a hard time going to the bathroom and every once in a while she would get the mushies for no reason. So I decided too see how she would d on this food, since I didn't know enough about a raw diet. I have thought about it, and you are convincing, Lol! Believe me, I do understand that a dog is a meat eater and doesn't need and shouldn't have a diet of grains. Actually, it's the first food that she really likes and looks for seconds. She was never a big eater and always picky. Now Gigi, the chi, is a different story, she will eat anything, so I always try to keep an eye on her. I am going to keep this post and the previous post that you sent as a reference. They are both loaded with good info, thank you. Hey, do you think Gig's teeth will grow back in on a raw diet? ha, ha, ha!! ♥ Peggy & The Girls ♥ -----Original Message----- From: Deanna Corey <[email protected]> To: Chihuahuas <[email protected]> Sent: Wed, Nov 17, 2010 6:06 pm Subject: Re: [Chihuahuas] OK, lets talk Raw Feeding again.. Hi ya Peggy!! I will try to answer your ?? the best I can! I am just gonna insert my answers in your post below...my answers will be in blue. From: Peggy & The Girls <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wed, November 17, 2010 1:47:46 PM Subject: Re: [Chihuahuas] OK, lets talk Raw Feeding again.. For any one who can answer my questions to: >From what I understand is that a dog has to be on all raw or on all kibble >diet, I have gotten the impression that you can't mix both. Or maybe I am >wrong? Dogs digest the two differently so it is best to choose one or the >other to avoid stomach upset..I also understand that if you go raw, they have >to have the bones as well, and in order to avoid splinters from the bones, it >Has to be grinded. Yet someone posted a picture of their dogs eating a whole raw turkey, so I am confused on the grinding issue!! No...grinding is NOT a necessity...they do need 10% raw, edible bone in their diet. I choose to grind only for my littles...those under 10lbs just because I worry they wouldn't be able to crunch them up enough and splinters do worry ME! Many people feed whole pieces without grinding! Grinding is just my choice so I don't worry so much. They need the enzymes from the bones which they get ground or whole and the purpose for whole is to help with teeth...i use other options as well as bones for clean teeth....another subject!I would think for a dog that doesn't have a lot of teeth like my Gigi (I adopted her that way) that raw wouldn't be a good idea because she can't chew as good as she should. Which also makes me wonder what will raw fed owners do when their Chi's get into their senior years and loose teeth?Many times dogs that are on raw all their lives don't have the same teeth issues as those on kibble.Feeding raw PREVENTS dental disease because of the enzymes. Chewing on raw bones also helps with gum disease...notice I said chewing. My dogs get to chew on knuckle bones to help with teeth...but I don't let them swallow bones like chicken leg bones or thigh bones because of splintering. They do get to chew and swallow necks, breasts, wings and parts of the backs...the bones on those pieces don't seem to have the same splintering issues...they are pliable and softer. Older dogs that have already lost teeth do GREAT on ground!!! Another reason I grind some is because none of my guys are too keen on the organs by themselves...if I grind a whole chicken everything gets ground up into one pile...they never know the 10% organs are in there...and the balance of the 80%10%10% in a whole chicken is almost perfect...balance without worry! I am also confused about people saying that the by products of chicken and beef is bad for dogs, yet, if you feed raw, they Are eating the by-products of the animal, so what's the difference? When a dog food company says "By-Products" you have to realize there are no controls on that protein source. MOST dog food companies buy their protein or get their protein from rendering plants. A Rendering plant process, diseased, dead and decaying animal carcasses which can and does include road kill...YUCK! I don't feed by-product! I feed organs...10% fresh organs...livers and kidneys and some green tripe. NO road kill! No deseased animals...no decaying meat! 100% human grade and organic and range free/grass fed when I can find it! Raw feeders don't feed By-products. What I also find interesting is that I had two Maltese PM puppies (RIP) that were supposedly never to have made it past the first couple of days that I owned them because they were so sick with being overdosed with Parvo shots, were on a diet of Iams kibble and milk bones for their whole life and never saw a Vet except for their shots, and only had their teeth cleaned once, and never lost any teeth, and yet they both lived to 14 yrs and 16.6 years old, with no health issues. The only people food that they ever had was egg and cheese. I had always kept them on a strict diet of their own food and never gave them the leftovers. It just makes me wonder if all of the controversy over raw and natural kibble diets is really worth it. In fact I look back at all the dogs that I had prior to the Malteses, and they all lived to 14 to over 16 years old and never saw a Vet. None were ever on HW and Flea Spot stuff either. Some never even had Boosters or a Rabies shots either. I some times think that more health issues are related to the shots and flea and HW stuff then their diet. And Iams kibble was the only food I ever fed any of them. They were all different breeds to. It all just makes me wonder..Well...I think you answered your own question to some extent here. I believe that most of the health issues in dogs comes from too many shots and "preventative" garbage that poisons them...heart worm, flea meds etc. A dog with a healthy immune system does not need these things...most of the time! I don't know what years you were feeding Iams but it use to be a decent food...in the beginning they used good ingredients! Then they sold out to one of the bigger pet food companies and they have not been a good choice ever since. I do believe that healthy genes play a big part in over-all health...but I also know of thousands of dogs that suffer because they are not fed properly...since I don't spend the $ to do genetic health testing on my dogs, I opt to do the best I can to give them what I think is the best options for optimal health. I don't over-vaccinate or over poison either. I just want the best shot at health because I can't be sure my guys don't have compromised health issues due to poor genes. etc. Raw made sense to me simply because when you study what a dog is...a carnivore...it just naturally leads to a meat diet...and since we know Wolves and other Canines don't own Kenmore stoves or go to chef school it makes sense they eat it raw! When you study further and you learn about their digestives systems it makes even more sense. Fruits, grains and Veggies need to be broken down by a LONG digestive process for their to be value in them for our dogs. A dog's digestive track is super short...does not afford digestion of such foods as they were never designed to eat them. Now...we do know that animals adapt and can live off of nutrients they were not designed to eat...obviously. But I guess my big question is: If you know what they were designed and created to eat...then why not feed them (as close as is possible for us) exactly that way?? Before I did the switch to raw I really thought my dogs were super healthy! We never needed vet care etc...they were never "sick"...except for a few little issues...a ear issue every now and then...maybe a UTI. But what I witnessed after about 6 months after the switch told me that while they were fine, they were not exactly at their healthiest!! Coats, skin, ears, teeth, odors, ...you name it...changed for the better. Attitudes changed...energy levels changed...stools/waste changed...so I was sold! 100% sold!!! They were changes I wasn't looking for...but what a gift to get them. This just works for so many people!!! So many dogs with cancer, and other horrible diseases are being given a second chance because of diet change...I persoanlly am all about prevention. And just because I feed raw do I think I will escape all horrible diseases coming my way???Certainly not...but I want better odds...I want better immune systems so if something does come we have a better shot at survival. This is just the decision that I have come to...it is my own decision...one that did not come easy for me. It is just simply the best choice for us!!! Does that mean it's the best for you? for everyone?? Maybe! But thats for you to decide...and ONLY you!!!! If you do not see the value in raw...don't let yourself be bullied into doing it. BUt whatever you choose...do enough research...even if it is your own experiences...to know why you do what you do so that you are not swayed and feel confident in that choice! Hugs from the dog park! Deanna I'm not a raw feeder, but I wanted to tell you that if Ricky is a picky eater, like my Princess is, then, have you ever tried the Wellness Chicken kibble? Princess has never been big on eating, but now that she has been on the Wellness Chicken, she looks forward to meal time and even ask for seconds, They breed and raise their own chickens and everything is processed in their own plant, so you don't have to worry about cross contamination. It's mostly pure chicken plus veggies and the omegas are added in, no fillers, preservatives,artificial colors etc.. The chicken type is a larger chunk, so for Gigi, I put her portion in the blender and chop it smaller, and I have noticed by doing this that she is not downing the chunks, but now takes her time in eating it. I did not like the turkey and fish blend, which is marked for small breeds because her poop and breath stank. She actually likes the Chicken better.The chicken blend is called Super 5 Complete Health blend and is all natural. I tried other brands and this was an instant hit. Their canned chicken is 95% pure chicken. If you email them, they may send you samples. http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/product-details.aspx?pet=dog&pid=52&dm=completehealth ♥ Peggy & The Girls ♥ Waggin' Tails in The Dog Park, Deanna and The Dog Park Pack: Nugget, Shuai-Li, Mouse, Myrtle, Mable, and Caleb and honorary non-dog members of The Dog Park: Stella-Macaw, Stanley-Amazon, Miles the cat www.joys4toys.com -----Original Message----- From: Kavi <[email protected]> To: Chihuahuas <[email protected]> Sent: Wed, Nov 17, 2010 2:54 pm Subject: [Chihuahuas] OK, lets talk Raw Feeding again... Hi everyone I know we have about exhausted the raw feeding talk. I want to start feeding Ricky Raw. He likes our food so much that I am waisting money on dog food. So I would just like a very simple recipe for Ricky. I do not want to grind up food. I just want to mix like raw beef, turkey, or chicken, the livers etc with veggies and whatever else. what about vitamins? He will get all the vitamins he needs in raw? A meat, livers, veggies? and what about the raw bones? can I just put them in a baggie and use a hammer and crush them? I can read about raw feeding online, but who better to ask than the ones who do it here! Thanks shanna
