I would think that you may want to complete the CCIE process before you make
such statements. I can assure you you will be doing more than reading a
Cisco Press book or two.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Liang Mark J Civ AFRL/PROI"
To:
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 10:42 AM
Subject: RE: To CCIE's without a job [7:12805]
> You sounded like an "engineer want a be" and don't have an engineering
> degree! What you say is true, engineering degree is just a piece of paper
> with out experience, but it is a good start a very good start for someone
> without experience. It takes hard work and dedication to get an engineer
not
> just a few weeks of reading a book from Cisco Press. Don't get me wrong,
to
> get to the CCIE level also takes a great deal of hard work and dedication
> too, but it is minimal compare to getting an engineer degree.
>
> Just my 2 cents,
>
> mark,
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Baker, Jason [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 4:49 PM
> To: Liang Mark J Civ AFRL/PROI; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: To CCIE's without a job [7:12805]
>
>
> A true engineer is a person who knows what to do, and complete it
> successfully.
>
> not someone who can tell people they need to complete this or that. I have
> seen plenty of so called engineers design software that is utter $%^^% and
> too slow
> and when given the project to a so called " plain coder" he has completed
> the project
> come out with software that is quick, efficient and how the software
should
> have been
> designed in the first place.
>
> It adds fuel to the fire......... what is valued more a piece of paper
from
> uni or a person
> with real world experience ???
>
> Why should someone who has a uni paper be called engineer and not someone
> who has real world experience
> and knows true engineering ?
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Liang Mark J Civ AFRL/PROI [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Friday, 20 July 2001 9:45 am
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: To CCIE's without a job [7:12805]
> >
> > My definition of Software Engineer is someone with an engineering degree
> > and
> > also does software engineering. A Developer/Coder just write code base
on
> > the engineering requirements and doesn't require a degree.
> >
> > my two cents,
> >
> > mark,
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Howard C. Berkowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 1:17 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: To CCIE's without a job [7:12805]
> >
> >
> > >That's a scary thought: CCIEs who develop protocols. ;-]
> >
> > I know very few respected protocol or platform designers that ever
> > mentioned having a CCIE. On the other hand, it only occasionally
> > comes up that one has a PhD, which isn't always in a relevant
> > discipline. I'm amused by the degree requirement--I could see an
> > argument for a master's or doctorate, but the undergraduate computer
> > science program gets into relatively little you need to know to
> > design and implement protocols, other than as a coder.
> >
> > Personally, I'm a much better developer than I am a support person.
> > There's overlap between the skills of product/protocol design and
> > large network design, but much less with troubleshooting.
> >
> > Even quality testing is a somewhat different skill set than
> > troubleshooting. For example, has anyone seen a Cisco exam that
> > explored the differences among conformance, interoperability, and
> > performance testing? The difference between a correct but boundary
> > condition event, a syntactically incorrect event, and an inopportune
> > event?
> >
> > >
> > >They are looking for software engineers. They aren't going to find many
> > >that have a CCIE? It's a different skill set and requires a different
> > type
> > >of personality.
> > >
> > >Priscilla
> > >
> > >At 09:41 AM 7/18/01, Ole Drews Jensen wrote:
> > >>Forgive me for sending this here, I know there's a place for job
> > >>discussions, but I noticed that there have been several e-mails about
> > how
> > >>CCIE's now have a harder time getting jobs.
> > >>
> > >>I received this e-mail (look at the message included after my
signature)
> > on
> > >>another Cisco list I'm a member of:
> > >>
> > >>Hth,
> > >>
> > >>Ole
> > >>
> > >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >> Ole Drews Jensen
> > >> Systems Network Manager
> > >> CCNA, MCSE, MCP+I
> > >> RWR Enterprises, Inc.
> > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >> http://www.OleDrews.com/CCNP
> > >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >> NEED A JOB ???
> > >> http://www.oledrews.com/job
> > >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >>
> > >>Message: 1
> > >>Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:11:26 -0000
> > >>From: "JDO" >
> > >>Subject: Looking for a Special Kind of CCIE
> > >>
> > >>Hello,
> > >>
> > >>My name is Johnna Smith and I work for a placement firm in Dallas,
> > >>Texas. I am in desperate need of a CCIE that DEVELOPS routing
> > >>protocols. I need them to have BGP, DSPF, IS-IS, and MPLS. The must
> > >>be a software engineer and they must be degreed.
> > >>
> > >>If any of you could help me, please give me a call or shoot me an
> > >>email at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or at
> > >>972-991-7569.
> > >>
> > >>Just to take a look at someof our other positions please go to
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>We also work with another agency that focuese more on IT, you can
> > >>find their site at
> > >>
> > >>Thanks
> > >>
> > > >Johnna
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