Robert Edmonds wrote: > > Here's another benefit I see from certifications like this: > there are > things that all of us know how to do, but if asked to walk > someone through > it over the phone, couldn't do it. For example, for me it > would be DNS > configuration. I can do it, but I can't tell YOU how to do > it. I know it > just well enough to kind of stumble through it and get it > working. And I > can get it working CORRECTLY. It's just that I am weak in that > area. With > a performance based test in a lab situation, I could pass by > getting it to > work, but I may not be able to answer the question correctly on > paper. And, > in my opinion, it's more important to be able to "walk the > walk" than "talk > the talk". What do you think?
Talking the talk is very important too. Think proactively. Hopefully, before long, you'll be moving up in the world. If you can train your replacement to do what you did, then you can move up with fewer impediments. If you can't train a replacement, then you may not be able to move up, or you may move up and continually get calls from your replacement asking for your help. I have worked with engineers who have never given any thought to learning, training, etc. You know the type who can only work with concrete things and considers any social science like education or psychology to be hogwash. ;-) These types get stuck doing all sorts of mundane things that are beneath them because they can't explain to someone else how to do it. This probably doesn't apply to you, but it's just something to think about. It's funny that you use DNS as an example. I'm working with an engineer right now who has said he will show me his DNS tasks but he has failed to do this. I wonder if it's because he only does it once in a while and is afraid that he won't be able to explain it to me. I'll try to go easy on him, now that you have helped me see his side of the story. :-) Priscilla > ""Kevin Cullimore"" wrote in message > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > inline > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Robert Edmonds" > > To: > > Sent: 29 September 2002 12:00 am > > Subject: Re: Lookee Lookie - new certifications!!!! [7:54435] > > > > > > > I don't think it's accurate to say that Cisco, Microsoft > and Novell have > > > contributed to the "paper cert syndrome". They simply > created > > > certifications in an effort to distinguish those who are > familiar with > > their > > > products from those who don't. > > > > As part of the process of actuating those certifications, they > commissioned > > tests containing questions that could be answered "correctly" > without > > possessing an adequate knowledge of the subject matter. Even > if you are > only > > concerned with their ability to gauge book learning, the > questions have > > tended to fall far, far short of useful expectations. > > > > > The > people who use > > brain-dumps and boot > > > camps are the real culprits. They get the certifications > that get them > > the > > > jobs, then prove they don't know what they're doing, and in > turn it > casts > > a > > > shadow of doubt on those who do (know what they're doing). > You can't > > blame > > > them. Besides, all three have made their more recent > certifications > more > > > difficult with simulations, etc. And I don't think many > people doubt > that > > > someone who has passed the CCIE lab knows at least enough > to stumble > > through > > > and succeed. Anyway, I think the idea is great, and I hope > they > succeed. > > I > > > will definitely be in line to get my FCP certification. > Maybe it will > be > > > the difference between me and that other guy. Maybe you > (not anyone > > > specific -- generally). > > > > > > ""Chuck's Long Road"" wrote in message > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > > ""Kevin Wigle"" wrote in message > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > > > If you read further into the site you will that the > FCPA is > proposing > > to > > > > > deliver hands-on testing at both junior and senior > levels of > > > > certification. > > > > > > > > > > They have buy in from the major vendors such as Cisco, > Microsoft, > > Novell > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > CL: ironically, all three of the above have contributed > mightily to > the > > > > whole "paper cert" syndrome! > > > > > > > > > > > > > Red Hat. > > > > > > > > > > Both Novell and Red Hat and talking it up as the > "capstone" to their > > > > certs, > > > > > but not as a replacement. > > > > > > > > > > People who have CCIE / CDE / RHCE certs will be awarded > a FCPA cert > > > > without > > > > > being tested. > > > > > > > > > > Which is a bit funny as the list has from time to time > "discussed" > > paper > > > > > CCIEs. > > > > > > > > > > Since the FCPA cert is just another lab, I don't know > how it would > be > > > > > different from any other. It still doesn't > "automatically" mean > yoou > > > have > > > > > real world experience, just real lab experience. > > > > > > > > > > However, it is almost a daily discussion where I work > about how > > someone > > > > has > > > > > some initials but can't seem to troubleshoot out of a > paper bag. > > Quite > > > > > often people are sent off on courses but are not > "motivated" to take > > the > > > > > exam. Anybody can sit at the back of the classroom and > play > > solitaire - > > > > not > > > > > everyone passes the exam. > > > > > > > > > > A "hands-on" exam I think would be very beneficial as > another tool > to > > > > assess > > > > > a person's ability. Still, as mentioned we will always > be able to > > > debate > > > > > the "lab/real world" gambit but at least the whole > discussion would > be > > > on > > > > a > > > > > higher plane. > > > > > > > > > > However, being on a "vendor neutral" plain, anyone can > walk in and > > take > > > > the > > > > > exam without pre-requisites. This could be enhanced by > having a > real > > > > > pre-requisite of having the vendor's "paper" cert > before attempting > > the > > > > lab. > > > > > > > > > > But this can be debated also. On the site in one of > the meeting > > minutes > > > > was > > > > > an interesting quote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.fieldcertification.org/Composition/Steering_Committee_Meeting_Min > > > > > utes_06-18-01.htm > > > > > > > > > > Eighty Pound Weight: Mr. Brown commented that he > believed a > company > > > > could > > > > > spend a million dollars designing a multiple-choice > test which > > > accurately > > > > > predicts whether a person is likely able to lift an > eighty-pound > > weight > > > > or, > > > > > the test taker could prove this ability merely by being > asked to > lift > > an > > > > > eighty-pound weight. Mr. Brown believed the FCPA. > effort is > > attempting > > > to > > > > > have technology workers prove themselves by "lifting > eighty pound > > > > weights." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think I like what FCPA wants to accomplish but the > devil is always > > in > > > > the > > > > > details and whether yet another certification will gain > industry > > > > acceptance. > > > > > > > > > > In this regard, the FCPA seems to have attracted > participation from > a > > > lot > > > > of > > > > > the industry's top vendors so maybe the time is right > for > performance > > > > based > > > > > testing............. > > > > > > > > > > Kevin Wigle > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Chuck's Long Road" > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 6:00 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: Lookee Lookie - new certifications!!!! > [7:54435] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > check further into the site: > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.fieldcertification.org/Field_Certification.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > read all about "field certification" > > > > > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.fieldcertification.org/How_It_Works.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > sure looks like a whole new level of certification to > me. > > > > > > > > > > > > not that I disagree with the principal here. But the > home page ( > and > > > > > Cisco's > > > > > > site ) does talk about this > > > > > > > > > > > > "Get the Field Certified Professional (FCPT) > credential to assert > > > > yourself > > > > > > as the real IT professional with actual skills and > set your > > credential > > > > > apart > > > > > > from the paper ones! " > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said - a whole new certification to certify > that your > > > > certification > > > > > > is better than some "paper" certification. > > > > > > > > > > > > I can hardly wait. > > > > > > > > > > > > Chuck > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > www.chuckslongroad.info > > > > > > like my web site? > > > > > > take the survey! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ""Steven A. Ridder"" wrote in message > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > > > > > Not sure I saw any new certifications, just a new > org. to > certify > > > > > > > ""Chuck's Long Road"" wrote in message > > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > > > > > > Check this out" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/625/ccie/ccie_program/fcpa.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AND > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.fieldcertification.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AND > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.fieldcertification.org/Membership/Pre_Qualification.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now you can get a certification that certifies > that you are > > > > > certified!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.chuckslongroad.info > > > > > > > > like my web site? > > > > > > > > take the survey! > > Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=54557&t=54435 -------------------------------------------------- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
