I do not have a PH.D in philosophy, so maybe my thinking is too simple:

"*truly neutral* source of information about products?"

Information changes with time, place and context.
This is so for products, thoughts, ideas, dreams,

and this is not so for knowledge, neutral information, information that 
remains neutral, and "truly neutral* source of information (about products)"
because these things do not belong to our reality.

As there do not exist circles and straight lines, in the physical world,
there are no facts in this world, there is no knowledge, and there is no
neutral organ where I can go and ask if my dreams are realistic, for me, here, to day.
And I am glad for that. What would be left of my dream, when it is called a realistic dream?



If there would be such a neutral organ, call it citizendium, 
it would be possible for everybody to see how they are cheated all the day, 
all the time, everywhere, and this would not work out good for your health I am afraid.


So maybe it is useful to make two versions of the Citizendium, one for the 0.1% of 
the people in this world, who can count till two and a halve, and have a open mind, 
and the other one for the rest who believes in gods, hamburgers, sex, money, 
and use a nickname to "talk" with other nicknames.

But if you have an idea and I have an idea 

and we exchange these ideas, 

then each of us will have two ideas.

 
Ideas cannot be exchanged, as you cannot be proud of the virtues of other people.

Happy are those who dream dreams and are willing to pay the price to make them come true. - Albert Camus

Hope this post to the list I'm a member of is not held again, as some 
previous were, the "hold"-list will be interesting, in some time.
Roland Sassen



I'm thinking out loud, here, as a way of moving this discussion along.  The first thought that comes to my mind is that CZ's selling point must be closely tied to the fact that it will have editors and constables.  That is, what distinguishes it from Wikipedia is its *authoritativeness*.  Traditional encyclopediae have authoritativeness and neutrality, but lack the breadth of Wikipedia; Wikipedia has the breadth to include things like consumer information databases, but is not (perceived as) sufficiently reliable.  I conceive of CZ as offering a combination of these two virtues.

So, this online player would need to agree that this combination of virtues is worth supporting.  It seems reasonable to argue that CZ will eventually supersede Wikipedia as the first stop for information on a wide range of stuff, and that seems worth supporting.

(BTW, what sort of support do you envision?  It'll be easier to craft an argument as to *why* CZ should be supported if we better understand *how* the supporter might be supporting it...)

Cheers,

Dave

David A. Truncellito, Ph.D.  

P.S. Like you, Larry, I have a Ph.D. in philosophy and wrote a dissertation in epistemology -- mine was on the concept of epistemic justification, with Keith Lehrer as director.

If you have an apple and I have an apple  

and we exchange these apples, 

then you and I will still each have one apple. 

But if you have an idea and I have an idea 

and we exchange these ideas, 

then each of us will have two ideas.

                     --George Bernard Shaw

                                 

Assistant Professor of Writing, The George Washington University

2100 Foxhall Road NW, Washington, DC  20007

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://home.gwu.edu/~truncell

 



Larry Sanger wrote:
All,

I've been approached by and will soon meet face-to-face with a major player
online who may be interested in supporting a consumer information database.
This could result in *large* amounts of support for CZ.  So, I'd like to ask
you to help me think through the opportunity and the best way to approach
it.

In a global economy, with new companies and new products appearing all the
time, with the main source of consumer information being manipulative
commercials and box labels, what could be more valuable to the world than a
*truly neutral* source of information about products?

The idea requires that we radically expand the notion of what is included in
an encyclopedia, to encompass, well, *anything* of general interest.  It
would really put the meat on the bones of "the citizens' compendium of
everything."  It would involve information about every product (and, perhaps
in time, every business, and every movie, and every song...) that someone
wanted to be listed.  This is crazy, of course.  But there is a major player
who might provide truly significant support to help us bring it into being.

The *only* way to make this feasible, I think, is to create a groundswell of
public support for the project.  For that to happen, there must be, as well,
a *credible non-profit* organization behind it; the development of the
database must be maximally open and transparent; the results must be open
content, of course; and the system whereby information is input is as simple
as possible.

But the *first and most important* constraint on this project that came to
my mind when I started thinking about it is that the information must be
neutral, and there must be effective (but still efficient!) ways to make
sure that the information remains neutral.  We must tread *very* carefully
if we want to become a purveyor of consumer information, because the
financial interests who might want to get involved could make it *so* easy,
of course, to corrupt the fairness and reliability of the database.  But the
best way to secure this is precisely for the project to be maximally public,
open, and transparent.

Another constraint is that entries for products should not be flat wiki
pages, but database entries, with preassigned fields, and of course with
fields differing depending on product type.  In every other respect,
however, it could be a wiki.

There is no *good* reason that I can see why this should not be part of the
same database that is the Citizendium.  What is needed, for articles about
Kings and philosophers, and for products, is a neutral source of general
information.

One last thing to mention is that, in negotiating with this major online
player, we walk a fine line.  We want to provide this entity an incentive to
support the Citizendium.  But we cannot do that and compromise the
neutrality of the database.  The question that I will be thinking a great
deal about is why they should support a non-profit organization that is
committed to neutrality.  What reason can I give them?  Of course, if I can
give them no persuasive reasons, then we won't pursue the opportunity.

--Larry





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