Hi Clojures, I'm new and thought I'd chime in. :-) I've been playing with Clojure for a few weeks, built a quick Markov Chain Generator and started rebuilding <https://github.com/46Bit/_46bit> my blog with Compojure.
I think there's a philosophical bent in the Clojure community toward > small, composable libraries, rather than monolithic pre-built > combinations - across all domains. This has come up in discussions > before, mostly around the "full-stack web framework" issue, and the > consensus each time seems to be we're better served by doing a > mix'n'match from the available libraries. > I definitely agree, myself. If Clojure becomes widely used one day there will probably be a big framework, but from what I've seen from reviewing the work already done on libraries the current toolchain is perfectly in tune with how I like to build sites for my own enjoyment. Even in a community like that of Ruby where Rails is so popular, a lot of the top hackers I know stick with Sinatra - which is damned close to Compojure in approach. Rails on the other hand has ended up as almost a separate community unto itself. On Friday, 11 January 2013 18:25:03 UTC, Sean Corfield wrote: > > I think there's a philosophical bent in the Clojure community toward > small, composable libraries, rather than monolithic pre-built > combinations - across all domains. This has come up in discussions > before, mostly around the "full-stack web framework" issue, and the > consensus each time seems to be we're better served by doing a > mix'n'match from the available libraries. > > Scala is aimed much more squarely at the enterprise world of Java, > which in turn is much more inclined toward the full-stack approach. > > FWIW, I ported my mature, popular, convention-based MVC framework FW/1 > from CFML to Clojure and even tho' it's nowhere near full-stack, in > the Clojure world it's already far beyond the norm of small, > composable libraries, as it "bundles" Ring and Enlive and has its own > route processing. In the CFML world, FW/1 was a reaction to the large, > full-stack frameworks inspired by Spring, Rails etc, and those CFML > frameworks have routing, security, DI/AOP, ORM, environment control, > logging, test generation and all sorts of things built in... hundreds > of files, tens of thousands of lines of code, massive documentation > and so on. Even FW/1 (for CFML) has routing, some DI and environment > control all built in! FW/1 for Clojure has no DI nor environment > control (although that probably will get added at some point). I'm > somewhat allergic to ORM, favoring thin, simple data mappers instead > :) > > Sean > > On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Paul Umbers > <paul....@gmail.com<javascript:>> > wrote: > > My oopsie. You're right, it is 1.2.0. I was looking at the current head > of > > master, which I guess is 1.2.0-SNAPSHOT. > > > > As long as all projects stick to semantic versioning (a lot do), that > > problem is not so great. > > > > The other problem though is that of which libraries to choose for a > > particular function. I understand the choice is pretty wide, and that's > a > > good thing to some extent, but it means anyone new to Clojure has to > > evaluate and choose almost every library they could use - which takes > time & > > effort. If I want to build a web app/service with Java I know I can just > go > > to Spring and it will have pretty much everything I need - tested & > > compatible. The choice almost becomes a no-brainer. I don't have that > same > > ease of use with Clojure - if someone asked me to build a web app or > service > > now (commercially, so I'm on the Client's clock) I would have to factor > in a > > significant amount of time to choose, test & evaluate frameworks. > > > > I guess that kind of ease-of-use comes from maturity, and Clojure is > still > > relatively immature compared with Java. But then Scala is roughly the > same > > age and they have TypeSafe which, as a full-stack, has a more certain > "feel" > > to it than having to cherry-pick individual Clojure libraries (albeit > those > > that have become de facto standards). > > > > Still, clients pay me to know this stuff, and that was one of the > reasons > > for doing the project - to learn what works, what doesn't and how to go > > about it. > > > > > > On Friday, 11 January 2013 10:12:43 UTC-7, James Reeves wrote: > >> > >> On Friday, January 11, 2013 4:52:05 PM UTC, Paul Umbers wrote: > >>> > >>> For example, the latest vesion of Compojure (1.1.3) uses Ring 1.1.5 > and > >>> not the latest version of Ring (1.1.6) which has significantly better > util > >>> functions available - but I can't use them until Compojure catches up. > >> > >> Ring 1.1.6 doesn't have any new functions - it's just a patch release. > >> You're thinking of Ring 1.2.0-SNAPSHOT, which should be released within > the > >> next month, and will go into beta soon. > >> > >> Both Ring and Compojure use semantic versioning (http://semver.org/), > so > >> Ring 1.2.0 is backward compatible with Ring 1.1.0. This means that you > can > >> quite happily use Compojure 1.1.3 with Ring 1.2.0-SNAPSHOT if you so > desire. > >> > >> Semantic versioning solves a lot of the problems you describe, because > if > >> a library depends on version 1.0, you know it will work with version > 1.1, > >> 1.2, and so forth. Only major versions, such as a leap from 1.5 to 2.0, > have > >> breaking changes. > >> > >> - James > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "Clojure" group. > > To post to this group, send email to clo...@googlegroups.com<javascript:> > > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with > your > > first post. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > clojure+u...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > > > > -- > Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN > An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ > World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/ > > "Perfection is the enemy of the good." > -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880) > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
