Then they are very weak in terms of tooling evaluation. If people are unwilling to look objectively at a pros/cons analysis why bother with them ?
Why scrap the syntax for this kind of people ? I am not saying that there are not nice people to have a coffee with or a beer. I am just saying that they are not questioning their practices. This is part of their job. I met a CTO of a huge corporation last year who did not want anything to change. He's maintaing his shop in the stone age. Live and let die then. Acceptance based on such superficial criteria as syntax maybe ok for a hobby but for serious and challenging work ? In 2009 we ended up with comments like "how will they find resources, ..." after announcing that we were in prod with Clojure, the usual fud. Clojure is no more an "risky" choice, there is some traction out there, the keyword by itself appears now on job postings since what more than a year ago ? If the syntax was so much debilitating, you would not see this happening. It's not a cosmetic product marketing campaign :) Clojure establishes itself at what seems like a slow pace but if I look backward, there's been a lot of ground covered in five years and the momentum is still going on. In five years from now, I predict that we will see highly performant shops using Clojure as their main language to solve problems that seem today out of reach or for which previous attempts failed. Many will feel left behind. It's called evolution :) Luc P. > I think the choice of a language has always a subjective part. Particularly > when you learn a language by yourself for pleasure. Because it's 'for > pleasure' you want to learn a fun stuff. > > At work, I believe the subjective part works against a choice. Currently, > at my office, the 8 other colleagues don't want to take a look at Clojure > because of its LISP syntax. Their brain blocks and they don't hear you when > you talk about the language capabilities. > Le 13 août 2013 03:14, "Devin Walters" <dev...@gmail.com> a écrit : > > > I have to echo previous sentiments. I'm not going to fill out the survey > > because as it currently stands, it seems like it's begging for a conclusion > > that satisfies the author. > > > > I'd like to see more targeted questions w/r/t syntax. But there again, I > > think this kind of question is highly subjective, and likely to provide a > > narrow view of what people *actually* care about in Clojure: writing great > > programs, being inspired to dig deeper, realizing creative potential, etc. > > > > '(Devin Walters) > > > > On Aug 12, 2013, at 7:21 PM, Ramesh <ramesh10dul...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Great points here! > > > > I think once someone is comfortable with Clojure, Scala will be more > > disgusting than Java. This is because, Scala has such great adornments, > > ironically aspiring toward simplification. > > > > -ramesh > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 7:58 AM, David Pollak < > > feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> A couple of quick reactions... > >> > >> The survey itself is too "flat". It's like asking "do you like red or > >> green?" Well... I like green on my walls, but I like red on my ties. > >> > >> Scala has macros and a much richer syntax (although doing anything like > >> core.async with Scala macros might be like putting tabsco on an open cut... > >> just sayin') so I don't think the syntax and the macro stuff is a > >> one-to-one mapping. > >> > >> People learn to work with a variety of syntaxes and are successful with > >> them. Java and C++ have viscously awful syntax, yet they are very popular > >> and most users of the languages don't notice. Both C and Lisp model an > >> abstract computer and have syntax that reflects the computer that they > >> model and to my mind, that helps the user of each language grok the > >> abstract computer they are programming. > >> > >> I'd like a two-way mapping between a Clojure and an Excel-like formula > >> language. That way people could write one-liner Clojure functions in a > >> syntax that non-programmers are already comfortable with. I'm noodling with > >> something like that right now. > >> > >> I think Jay and Colin are saying something very, very important: Clojure > >> feels uncomfortable until it feels very comfortable and then there's no > >> going back. I am not yet comfortable with Clojure's syntax, but I totally > >> appreciate it. But I'm doing work in Scala, Java, and Clojure all for pay > >> all in the same week every week... and bouncing among all three makes > >> getting comfortable with Clojure a little slow. Further, I fear (deeply... > >> in my bones) that once I am comfortable with Clojure, doing Scala will be > >> as disgusting as doing Java is after 7 years of Scala. :-( > >> > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 12:52 AM, Răzvan Rotaru > >> <razvan.rot...@gmail.com>wrote: > >> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> I'm curious about the general opinion on the Clojure syntax, whether > >>> people actually like it or just use it because it provides macros. So I > >>> would like to ask you to participate in a poll. Thank You. > >>> > >>> Here's the link: > >>> > >>> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1GSgfkeThpUYlgFVzhhNIgA1JbTilu6S9eudq_Sbxl34/viewform > >>> > >>> Răzvan > >>> > >>> -- > >>> -- > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>> Groups "Clojure" group. > >>> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > >>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with > >>> your first post. > >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >>> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > >>> For more options, visit this group at > >>> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > >>> --- > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>> Groups "Clojure" group. > >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > >>> an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Telegram, Simply Beautiful CMS https://telegr.am > >> Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net > >> Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp > >> Blog: http://goodstuff.im > >> > >> -- > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> Groups "Clojure" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > >> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with > >> your first post. > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > >> For more options, visit this group at > >> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > >> --- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >> "Clojure" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > >> email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > >> > > > > -- > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "Clojure" group. > > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with > > your first post. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > > --- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Clojure" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > > > > -- > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "Clojure" group. > > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with > > your first post. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > > --- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Clojure" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > > > > -- > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your > first post. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- Softaddicts<lprefonta...@softaddicts.ca> sent by ibisMail from my ipad! -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
