Can we drop this whole string??? I think it has been beat to death as is really starting to degrade into a pissing match & a "I'm right and your not" argument.
> -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Behalf Of Andrew Graupe > Sent: July 18, 2004 6:03 PM > To: CLUG General > Subject: Re: [clug-talk] Why Linux isn't ready for the desktop > > > Niels Voll wrote: > > > <quote>Why Linux isn't ready for the desktop</quote> > > > > wow - this is a huge generalization, and like so many generalizations > > just simply false > > > > I do _not_ run a Linux desktop on a daily basis as my main working > > desktop, so most people would conclude that I'm not a raving maniac > > Linux zealot. On the surface, I'm a person, who should agree with your > > statement, since the main reason, I'm not running Linux as my main > > desktop is the lack of easy out-of-the-box, or easy download/install > > hardware driver support for my main machine, a rather new Toshiba > > laptop. WiFi G and Sound are the obvious trouble spots, I haven't even > > tried CD burning or other higher end activities. So the machine is a > > dual boot system at the moment. But since WiFi and sound are rather > > high priority items for me for daily use, my Linux installation for > > now is just a secondary boot, when I want to mess about with something > > Linux. > > > > So why do I still disagree with the generality of your statement? > > > > Because _no_ operating system (and hardware drivers) runs on any and > > all hardware. Try running Windows on a sparc chip based machine from > > Sun Microsystems for example, or on a PowerPC based chip from IBM. And > > I bet, that quite a bit of hardware out there does _not_ have drivers > > for Mac OS/X. Concluding, that Linux is not ready for the desktop, > > since certain hardware can't be used for certain Linux distributions, > > is as silly as saying that Mac OS/X or WinXP is not ready for the > > desktop. > > > > If my priority would have been to run Linux on my Laptop, I would have > > chosen a different laptop. Just as people, who's priority it is to run > > Mac Os/X, will chose an laptop from Apple, rather than one from > > Toshiba. So why did I chose a Toshiba? Simply speaking, my priority > > was the hardware spec of the machine, especially the 1400x1050 display > > (I love all those pixels!)... Other people, end up running OS/X, > > because they love Apple's hardware. > > > > So, we all have to chose: Pick our hardware, and live with the > > consequences of now being bound to certain operating system(s), games, > > productivity and other software. _or_ Pick our OS, and live with the > > consequence of being tied to certain hardware choices (and software > > choices). > > > > If I hadn't been so pre-occupied with picking hardware over software, > > I most certainly would have been able to get a really nice desktop > > system, which would run quite a number of Linux distro's wonderfully > > well. > > > > A sort of reverse argument: I most certainly have found incompatible > > server side hardware (e.g. RAID cards) with certain Linux distro's, > > kernel versions etc. But just because of that, not many serious people > > would argue that Linux isn't ready for the server room. > > > > You can run Linux desktops on many more hardware combinations, than > > you can run Max OS/X (and arguably Windows). And I don't think, that > > many serious people would argue, that Mac OS/X isn't ready for the > > desktop. > > > > If a certain software stack is a priority to you, chose your hardware > > accordingly. This has been the case in computing as long as I know. > > > > my CAD 0.02 > > > > ...Niels > > > > > I think one of the key arguments I'm making that you are missing is that > IT CAN BE DONE. There are kernel patches to accomodate the S3 Unichrome > chipset. So why aren't these in the main kernel branch? There *are* > patched versions of xorg for unichromes. So why isn't it integrated > into the main tree? I'm not the type to expect things to Just Work, but > I would like it to be a bit easier to make it Work (i.e. not have to > search hundreds of websites for it). If I could just download the > binary drivers, enable the kernel module, and be on my way, I would be > more than happy. Given that the patches exist, how hard could it be? > > > > > > > Andrew Graupe wrote: > > > >> Let me start by saying: I like linux. I think the world would be > >> better if everyone used it, and at least a bit more spyware free. > >> That being said, I have just spent most of the day trying to get 3D > >> acceleration with my integrated S3 UniChrome chip. I will say this > >> in favor of nVIDIA and ATi, at least they're common enough that > >> people have come up with workarounds for the various linux bugs. I > >> write this near midnight, after a marathon session of patching, > >> kernel recompiles, and other unpleasantness. That being said, I will > >> still have to reboot often if I want optimum performance because > >> gentoo-dev-sources (which is fast for normal things) can't be patched > >> to work with VIA video chips. I think I'll stay with this for now. > >> At least if the Neverwinter Nights install (the entire reason I'm > >> doing this) goes without a hitch, it will mean a great advancement in > >> terms of linux games. I guess we don't hear about linux games that > >> much because it's so phenomenally hard to get to this point. > >> > >> I don't mean to flame or troll, but this is the truth. Linux could > >> be a *TEENSY* bit more userfriendly. If the patches for VIA support > >> are out there, why haven't they been merged into the main kernel > >> tree? I have to think that VIA is a fairly big value-mobo > >> manufacturer (the PC in question is an HP; imagine how many are out > >> there), so it's not a fringe brand. At least it's done now. > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Andrew Graupe > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> clug-talk mailing list > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> http://clug.ca/mailman/listinfo/clug-talk_clug.ca > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > clug-talk mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://clug.ca/mailman/listinfo/clug-talk_clug.ca > > > > > -- > My computer beat me at chess, I beat it at boxing. We're even. > > > > _______________________________________________ > clug-talk mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://clug.ca/mailman/listinfo/clug-talk_clug.ca > _______________________________________________ clug-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://clug.ca/mailman/listinfo/clug-talk_clug.ca
