Edd,

I am far from being an expert on charging systems, so whatever I say here is 
based on my personal experience and what I have found from others.

The echo charger is a Xantrex device (I bet that others make one like that, as 
well). WM sells it here: 
http://www.westmarine.com/triple-blocks/xantrex--echo-charge-battery-charger—333669;
 Defender here: 
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|2289962|2289976&id=93959 (for 
$10 less). 

It seems that it is a device that responds to exactly your issue – how to keep 
a starting battery charged and separated from the house without any overly 
complex (and costly) dual battery regulators.

Apparently, there is a caveat with it. You may want to read that rant by Main 
Sail: 
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/electrical-systems/72295-xantrex-echo-charger-rant.html.
 There is nothing wrong with the device; only with the instruction manual that 
comes with it.

Btw. Nothing is cheap (as usual with anything boat related). The Echo Charger 
sells for about $120. maybe I should not use the word “cheap”, because I think 
that this is a cheap insurance. But it is not necessarily a “low cost”. After 
all, you would be spending $120 plus installation, plus rewiring, plus some 
additional incidental costs in order to save a $100 battery or two.

Btw 2. I bet that a few of our (C&C List’s) electrical experts would have to 
say a word or two on the subject.

Marek (in Ottawa).

From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 1:10 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

Marek, 

Very interesting. What exactly is an echo charger and how would I connect it? 

The previous owner had two house bank 31s and a starter battery hooked up 
parallel to one of them. That starter battery turned out to be dead and was 
dragging the other down. 

I replaced all with two new 31s about 4 years ago. Now one of those two is dead 
and I don’t feel like dumping $300 on a replacement when I’m not running on 
batteries for more than a few hours on any given day. 



All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log

On May 5, 2014, at 1:01 PM, Marek Dziedzic <dziedzi...@hotmail.com> wrote:


  Edd,

  I don’t want to start a discussion on how to charge the batteries (as this 
would be off topic), but starting from the ALL position has some major 
disadvantages. One is that you might be hiding a problem with your starting 
battery; two is that if one battery is weak, you would be charging that weak 
battery from the strong one (you risk that if one is nearly dead, the other 
would not start the engine, either, but instead would discharge to equalise the 
voltage with the weak one).

  No question (in my mind),  the best way is to start from the starting battery 
(hence the name) and have the echo charger making sure that both batteries are 
charged properly. 

  Some advocate to have the batteries split into “main” and “spare”. Many good 
marine batteries can be used as dual purpose. If you design your system this 
way, you start on the “main”, it gets charged by the alternator and the echo 
charger maintains the “spare”.

  If I remember correctly, you have a solar system, as well. Many charge 
controllers have a dual battery option and they can be setup to charge the 
“main” battery first and then charge the “spare” (mine has a selectable 50/50 
or 90/10 split).

  If you are interested, you can check some of Main Sail’s articles on that 
topic at Sailboat Owners or at his web site 
(http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/). 

  Marek (in Ottawa)

  PS. Would “may the Force (May the 4th) be with you” apply, even if it is a 
day late? I know it is mixing the references...

  From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
  Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 10:58 AM
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

  Rich, 

  Please do send around a diagram. I’m planning to do something similar — a 27 
starting battery (as battery #2) and a 31 house bank (as battery#1).

  When I want to start and run the engine, I will do so on ALL. That way the 
alternator will charge both batteries. When sailing and “hanging out”, I would 
switch to 1 only. 

  I have a solar panel and a dual battery regulator, which would connect to 
both. 

  Two weeks to launch and still much to do…..





  All the best,

  Edd


  Edd M. Schillay
  Starship Enterprise
  C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
  City Island, NY 
  Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log

  On May 5, 2014, at 10:38 AM, Rich Knowles via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:


    The best method I have found and the least problematic from all points of 
view is to have a dedicated starting battery that does nothing else but start 
the engine, and a house battery that can be several batteries in parallel. 
Ideally the house batteries will all be identical. I feed the alternator 
directly to the house battery and use a device such as a Xantrex EchoCharge, a 
small regulator, to keep the start battery charged. A simple 1/both/2 off 
switch feeds the house load from either battery and acts as a combiner switch 
if needed. I have a diagram I can send you if you wish. 

    I have wired many boats this way with no complaints or incidents. 

    Rich Knowles
    Indigo. LF38
    Halifax. NS

    On May 5, 2014, at 10:47, via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:


      In a pinch, I recently bought a 'starting' battery (Group 27) per my 
earlier post (no marine stores open after 6 on Saturdays)

      Then I decided to get a replacement for my dead Lifeline AGM battery.

      Of course, Murphy lurking about, I realized that my Zantrex Truecharge 40 
wants all the batteries it charges to be the same since
      its charging schemes apply to all three outputs to the batteries.

      Before I pull the 'rope-a-dope' of returning the starting battery, I need 
some list advice:

      A lot of sailors suggest using a 'starting' battery exclusively for 
starting and using the house batteries for the house. I am aware that
      an AGM can be used for starting as well.

      However, if a 'starting' battery is better for this job (CCA, etc.) and 
the AGM is better for its job, how does one use a single charger like mine
      to satisfy different charging schemes?  

      2 chargers, a smarter charger that has outputs for different battery 
characteristics, or 'forgetaboutit" and charge both batteries as though
      the were both AGMs?

      Charlie Nelson
      Water Phantom
      C&C 36 XL/kcb

      cenel...@aol.com

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