There are any number of ways to wire a boat. I have changed a few things, but I have always stuck with the principle that I can turn every light on, go ashore for a few days, and then come back to a dead house battery and hit the starter button and have the engine start right up and charge both banks without having to set any switches. The last time we were stuck with a dead battery was during hurricane Charlie and that was because one of them cracked and the acid leaked out. I’ll post how mine are wired tonight sometime. Joe Della Barba Coquina C&C 35 MK I From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rich Knowles via CnC-List Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 4:20 PM To: Marek Dziedzic; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries
Marek, this is not a money issue. It's merely a way of making sure that all batteries get due attention and are properly charged. All the people I've converted to this system have never been stuck for power to start their engines. The rant is just that. A rant. Nothing is really wrong, it's just that Xantrex assumes we are not all ignorant. Rich On May 5, 2014, at 14:52, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: Edd, I am far from being an expert on charging systems, so whatever I say here is based on my personal experience and what I have found from others. The echo charger is a Xantrex device (I bet that others make one like that, as well). WM sells it here: http://www.westmarine.com/triple-blocks/xantrex--echo-charge-battery-charger—333669; Defender here: http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|2289962|2289976&id=93959 (for $10 less). It seems that it is a device that responds to exactly your issue – how to keep a starting battery charged and separated from the house without any overly complex (and costly) dual battery regulators. Apparently, there is a caveat with it. You may want to read that rant by Main Sail: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/electrical-systems/72295-xantrex-echo-charger-rant.html. There is nothing wrong with the device; only with the instruction manual that comes with it. Btw. Nothing is cheap (as usual with anything boat related). The Echo Charger sells for about $120. maybe I should not use the word “cheap”, because I think that this is a cheap insurance. But it is not necessarily a “low cost”. After all, you would be spending $120 plus installation, plus rewiring, plus some additional incidental costs in order to save a $100 battery or two. Btw 2. I bet that a few of our (C&C List’s) electrical experts would have to say a word or two on the subject. Marek (in Ottawa). From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 1:10 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries Marek, Very interesting. What exactly is an echo charger and how would I connect it? The previous owner had two house bank 31s and a starter battery hooked up parallel to one of them. That starter battery turned out to be dead and was dragging the other down. I replaced all with two new 31s about 4 years ago. Now one of those two is dead and I don’t feel like dumping $300 on a replacement when I’m not running on batteries for more than a few hours on any given day. All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log<http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/> On May 5, 2014, at 1:01 PM, Marek Dziedzic <dziedzi...@hotmail.com<mailto:dziedzi...@hotmail.com>> wrote: Edd, I don’t want to start a discussion on how to charge the batteries (as this would be off topic), but starting from the ALL position has some major disadvantages. One is that you might be hiding a problem with your starting battery; two is that if one battery is weak, you would be charging that weak battery from the strong one (you risk that if one is nearly dead, the other would not start the engine, either, but instead would discharge to equalise the voltage with the weak one). No question (in my mind), the best way is to start from the starting battery (hence the name) and have the echo charger making sure that both batteries are charged properly. Some advocate to have the batteries split into “main” and “spare”. Many good marine batteries can be used as dual purpose. If you design your system this way, you start on the “main”, it gets charged by the alternator and the echo charger maintains the “spare”. If I remember correctly, you have a solar system, as well. Many charge controllers have a dual battery option and they can be setup to charge the “main” battery first and then charge the “spare” (mine has a selectable 50/50 or 90/10 split). If you are interested, you can check some of Main Sail’s articles on that topic at Sailboat Owners or at his web site (http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/). Marek (in Ottawa) PS. Would “may the Force (May the 4th) be with you” apply, even if it is a day late? I know it is mixing the references... From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 10:58 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries Rich, Please do send around a diagram. I’m planning to do something similar — a 27 starting battery (as battery #2) and a 31 house bank (as battery#1). When I want to start and run the engine, I will do so on ALL. That way the alternator will charge both batteries. When sailing and “hanging out”, I would switch to 1 only. I have a solar panel and a dual battery regulator, which would connect to both. Two weeks to launch and still much to do….. All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log<http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/> On May 5, 2014, at 10:38 AM, Rich Knowles via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: The best method I have found and the least problematic from all points of view is to have a dedicated starting battery that does nothing else but start the engine, and a house battery that can be several batteries in parallel. Ideally the house batteries will all be identical. I feed the alternator directly to the house battery and use a device such as a Xantrex EchoCharge, a small regulator, to keep the start battery charged. A simple 1/both/2 off switch feeds the house load from either battery and acts as a combiner switch if needed. I have a diagram I can send you if you wish. I have wired many boats this way with no complaints or incidents. Rich Knowles Indigo. LF38 Halifax. NS On May 5, 2014, at 10:47, via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: In a pinch, I recently bought a 'starting' battery (Group 27) per my earlier post (no marine stores open after 6 on Saturdays) Then I decided to get a replacement for my dead Lifeline AGM battery. Of course, Murphy lurking about, I realized that my Zantrex Truecharge 40 wants all the batteries it charges to be the same since its charging schemes apply to all three outputs to the batteries. Before I pull the 'rope-a-dope' of returning the starting battery, I need some list advice: A lot of sailors suggest using a 'starting' battery exclusively for starting and using the house batteries for the house. I am aware that an AGM can be used for starting as well. However, if a 'starting' battery is better for this job (CCA, etc.) and the AGM is better for its job, how does one use a single charger like mine to satisfy different charging schemes? 2 chargers, a smarter charger that has outputs for different battery characteristics, or 'forgetaboutit" and charge both batteries as though the were both AGMs? Charlie Nelson Water Phantom C&C 36 XL/kcb cenel...@aol.com<mailto:cenel...@aol.com> _______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com<http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/> CnC-List@cnc-list.com<mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> _______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com<http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/> CnC-List@cnc-list.com<mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> ________________________________ _______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com<mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> ________________________________ _______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com<mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> _______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com<mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>
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