Sometimes, pricing too low scares off buyers who may assume something is
terribly wrong with the boat. My father once wanted to sell a washer and
dryer that he didn't need. He didn't care about the money. He just
wanted to get rid of them. So he advertised them at an absurdly low
price. Not one call on the advert in 2 weeks. So then he advertised them
at a fair price for the good set that they were and sold them before the
ink was dry on the newspapers.
Bill Bina
On 11/29/2016 6:44 PM, Doug Welch via CnC-List wrote:
We bought our C&C over the winter. We hadn't planned on buying, it
just happened our dream boat (33-2 cb) came up at a great price, so we
jumped. We still had to sell our Catalina 30, ideally between January
and April when we were scheduled for launch. I had studied the market
and priced the boat at X. The broker (Perry @ Swans in Pickering)
advice was that we were asking too little by half. I said we want a
quick sale and he responded that it would still sell quickly at his
recommended price. Long story short, we priced it at his recommended
price and sold before April, below listing but still well above what
I thought we should ask. Swans is a Catalina and Dufour dealer. What
I took from the experience is going with a broker that knows the boat
and the market for that boat, is beneficial.
Cheers,
Doug
Celtic Knot
85 33-2 cb
On Sunday, November 27, 2016 8:28 AM, Dave S via CnC-List
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
To add to Chuck's thoughts:
A buyer's agent (or even a helpful broker) will be able to provide
you with information on asking and actual selling prices for
broker-sold boats for the model you are after. This is a huge help
as there can be a large range as we know (in 2013, it was around 30%
for the models I was looking at)
As mentioned, many of the boats owned by those on this list are now
out of the broker market - too cheap - nonetheless, the broker can
still make this info available to you.
Even with a very high level of trust, every expectation you can dream
of should be stated in writing, to both the broker and the surveyor.
(or the seller if applicable) Good fences make good neighbours, and
this is not an imposition, it protects everyone and maintains
friendships. For most items, clear, friendly, communication in an
email trail is fine.
Surveyors/surveys are highly variable, and will not be as thorough
or effective as you would like. I have read surveys while looking at
boats that missed obvious problems, bent rudder shaft, (2 C&C 34s)
buckled topsides at the chainplates...(several older boats with
hydraulic backstay adjusters fitted) Specific known issues should be
researched by the buyer and specifically referenced to the surveyor
and broker - again, in writing. Forums and lists like this are
fantastic sources of info, and the list members know more than
surveyors, generally. (Examples would be banging kanazaki
transmissions, worn folding props, rod/wire rigging, keel stub/mast
step issues on 33-2, 35-3, 41, cracking keels in frozen parts of the
world... - no doubt there are many many others) It is rare indeed
that a surveyor will be that knowledgable or thorough with regard to
a particular model. (unless he owned one, as in Chuck's case) If I
were remote- buying a boat that was worth any sort of money I would
make a point of inspecting it with the surveyor.
You can often get a survey from the seller. If available, it makes
nice light reading while you wait for your own. ;-)
Already mentioned - check the paperwork for the FOB point. This is
where you take title. Figure out what constitutes your acceptance of
the boat's condition, document all.
Already mentioned - hold back.
Chuck makes an interesting point - wariness about a price drop. For
someone who is handy, this might actually represent an opportunity.
yards are expensive to operate and charge a lot of money, (for
anything) and any sailboat can be hard to sell. Depends on the
seller's frame of mind, the issue and the labour involved. (I
rebuilt windstar's keel stub/maststep as much as a preventative
measure as anything, and would not hesitate to buy a 33-2, 35iii, or
41 with an issue identified, provided the price had been adjusted by
the C$20-30k a yard would ask for the same work.)
I think the "pipe dream" when buying is the overly optimistic
assessment of things like canvas, sails, upholstery/foam, prop,
running rigging, galley stove, "secondary" systems and wear-out
items that are normally not carefully inspected and can quickly add
up to tens of thousands. (good bones are not the whole story) A
surveyor can't really help much with that.
Coffee's done...
Dave - 33-2 windstar
On Nov 23, 2016, at 12:59, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Buying a boat from a broker without a buyer’s agent is the same as
buying a house with no realtor representing you. And doing so from
long distance, stacks the deck even further against you. The
seller’s agent is looking out for the seller and themselves. Period.
>> snip
To the topic of knowledgeable brokers and surveyors, I think that
most brokers tend to follow the money trail and focus their energy
and expertise on what will yield the greatest return for them and
their company. Many yacht brokers are passing up listings of 30-40
year old sailboats because demand is low, the potential buyers are
cheapskates (yes, that includes us!) and the time and money it takes
to list an old “fixer upper” may result in the broker being upside
down in recovering their costs. If they take on an older boat,
they’d prefer to list the 40 year old Hinckley or Morris Yacht that
still sells for over $100K, which means their commission actually
amounts to some return for the effort. This is why you see more and
more cheap boats being represented by “discount” online brokers like
POP Yachts, where the virtual brokerage is located in Florida and
their “regional” sales agent collects photos from the owner and
shows the boat to clients. This person may have 50-100 boats listed
and may never have first-hand knowledge of any of them. From
experience, the regional guy is not usually a sailor and he may have
inherited the listing from a prior broker who may no longer be with
the company.
When I purchased Half Magic last winter, I was fortunate that my
surveyor, Mike Collier from Marine Safety in Fairhaven, MA, is also a
C&C Landfall 38 owner and was very excited to run a fine tooth comb
over my purchase. I scheduled the survey to be performed when I
could be there too. Even so, we surveyed in January with the boat
out of the water and we missed a few things.
>> snijp
I’ve also heard of some folks getting two surveys on a boat purchase,
one very thorough survey to be as informed as possible and the other
as a more “general” survey that can be submitted to an insurance
company to allow an older boat to be insured if there may some
problems that the owner wants to fix on his own but perhaps not right
away.
>>snip
Be wary of boats that have been listed for many months and are now
listed at significantly reduced price. Those are the boats that were
initially priced well if they were in good shape, but problems came
up and the broker or owner didn’t want to go the expense of fixing
the problem. To think that you can fix those problems cheaper than
the original owner or a yard that is able to buy parts and labor at
wholesale, may be a bit of a pipedream.
>> snip
Chuck Gilchrest
S/V Half Magic
1983 35 Landfall
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_______________________________________________
This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
_______________________________________________
This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
