I had a pretty good smile when I purchased Halcyon. Actually a frown when I saw it. Turns out as mentioned it is common, The ae yard only faired the area (after painting all around it?) with no repair, or glass or G flex or anything so I was little pissed and nervous. Had a Diver down last week to clean hull prior to race #1 and there is no sign of any movement at all! I will examine this fall when I haul to bottom paint and replace my thru hulls (if I cant clean them) and knot meter which wont budge and I am not taking that chance of busting it out after the yard so kindly painted right over it !! If there is any sign of movement I will glass. Oh the bolts look great Now and stainless washers are in place. I paid to have the keel bolts tightened . Note the dirty really bad keel bolt pictures in this file. These pics were AFTER the Yard charged me to tighten them.? I am a rookie but not stupid. When I lifted floor board I went little crazy on Manager. Then they cleaned them up and said they could not budge the keel bolts (so they say probably using home depot 3/8 socket set ! ) Heres a few pics of the mess! Cant make this stuff up ! hope this works let me know.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=10naHIAVccvXjSfoRy5KNWc3220kDpClW #notgoingback! John Conklin s/v halcyon From: CnC-List <cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> on behalf of Josh Muckley via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Sent: Friday, April 5, 2019 6:23:44 PM To: C&C List Cc: Josh Muckley Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: 1974 36 mk2 questions Glassing over just seals the joint and helps keep any flex cracks from occurring. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C&C 37+ Solomons, MD On Fri, Apr 5, 2019, 6:04 PM Shawn Wright via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: So are you saying there was a void in the keel stub on the hull? Sounds like filling it was a good idea. So the idea of glassing over the joint is to reduce slight movement which may be gradually loosening the keel nuts? On Fri, Apr 5, 2019 at 2:02 PM ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: When the smile first appeared on my boat, the keel bolts were so loose that I could move the keel from side to side. In order to drop the keel, we had to remove the mast (The forward keel bolt is under the mast). Once we dropped the keel, we hosed out the bolt holes. There was a terrible smell coming from the forward hole. There was a void there that had to be filled. The yard ground the stub and the top of the keel, and epoxied the two of them together. It took about a gallon of epoxy to fill the void. Then a couple of layers of fiberglass were glassed over the smile, and it has never appeared again. Also, I haven't had to re-tighten the keel bolts. Alan Bergen 35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR On Fri, Apr 5, 2019 at 1:47 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: The C&C smile is usually a non-issue. It is nearly always resolved by torquing the keel bolts and cosmetically repairing the hull/keel crack. See: http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/smile/index.htm<https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttp-3A__www.cncphotoalbum.com_doityourself_smile_index.htm%26d%3DDwMFaQ%26c%3DclK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI%26r%3D9w3G7Cf8YfQnrjmtuNxwDJYr3JMv9f1pAfgAJ9xXYQQ%26m%3Dr19-Ug1nKqOgD02UkVvV5cMq-VD-yOqZzz_ZVsyRJXc%26s%3DeT6Lw7NSsBvjGXrbwE2rHsLwyMQ557kEyoHIuMZIc-Y%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0adc4a0cc8684a7ee02108d6ba157ee1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900998812760272&sdata=jl4bWRoA9jyXVrzmmEg7AWsbiL%2BKqoeVDPNy%2FxV%2FE4A%3D&reserved=0> That's a typical C&C smile. It was fixed by torquing the bolts, digging out some crumbly stuff at the crack and epoxying a couple overlapping layers of glass over the crack. The repair shown was done in 1999. It has not reappeared. Here's the same boat in 2018. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UzpgYV6IlfmY6YeK2k3-pcE0ZACotjpJ<https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__drive.google.com_open-3Fid-3D1UzpgYV6IlfmY6YeK2k3-2DpcE0ZACotjpJ%26d%3DDwMFaQ%26c%3DclK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI%26r%3D9w3G7Cf8YfQnrjmtuNxwDJYr3JMv9f1pAfgAJ9xXYQQ%26m%3Dr19-Ug1nKqOgD02UkVvV5cMq-VD-yOqZzz_ZVsyRJXc%26s%3DHsX43j88YEh9_la6FvzCd3mOcQDUKKfvMB6NlISRj_8%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0adc4a0cc8684a7ee02108d6ba157ee1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900998812780287&sdata=7MiX4%2Bp66r%2FzrF8C3T5mNGCLW%2B0NOROQalNGxBZoN9Q%3D&reserved=0> Torquing the bolts is much easier than finding the tools to do it. Most use a torque multiplier. You may be able to rent what you need. The bolts must be individually backed off and then torqued. Doesn't much matter if the boat is in or out of the water. The biggest issue with older C&C's is if the washers/plates under the keel bolts have not been replaced with stainless plates. If they are plain steel, they should be replaced with stainless. For most older C&C's the smile is a greatly overblown issue. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Fri, Apr 5, 2019 at 3:05 PM Shawn Wright via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: Ok, so perhaps a better question to ask - what is the recommended maintenance (annual re-torque? I see a torque spec listed on the CNCphotoalbum page but no other details), and if the C&C smile is found, does the keel need to be dropped to fix it? This boat will be pushing our budget a bit, so I want to ensure we're not going to incur a bunch of costs right away. On Fri, Apr 5, 2019 at 11:59 AM Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: There is a way to add keel bolts with the keel in place, but C&Cs are not known for losing keels in the first place! Joe Coquina On Apr 5, 2019, at 11:42 AM, Shawn Wright via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: Hello all, After another 4 months of boat searching, I am once again considering the 35-2 "Callisto" which began this old thread from January. I have been thinking about it, and when I saw it at the dock while looking at another boat (Crown 28, yes I am getting desperate...), I realized I had forgotten how nice looking the boat is. It still has a for sale sign, and I am waiting to hear back from the owner. I think at 34K he was asking far too much, but at 20K I could overlook some of the not quite up to my standards work done on it. I will get a survey for sure if he gets back to me, and we can agree on a price. Since looking at this boat, I started getting interested in Ericsons, and really liked the idea of the encapsulated keels on their 70s models. We almost bought a 29. But I am realizing that my fear of keel bolts is probably unwarranted, and even Ericson went with bolt on keels by the 80s, and none of them fell off. I hear people talk about replacing keel bolts, but I assume they mean just the nuts, which doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, since the crevice corrosion is likely to a problem with the bolt/stud. Are the bolts J bolts like concrete anchors, or just threaded rod set into lead? I imagine replacing a J bolt would be a huge job. Is replacing them ever actually done? Could you just drill, tap, and thread in new stainless rod in between the original bolts for extra safety? Or am I worrying too much about a mostly non-issue? It's just that most bolt on keel boats I've looked at have water in the bilge meaning the bolts/nuts will stay wet most of the time (probably mainly rainwater/condensation I guess), so it seems like I should be concerned. It's interesting also that after a lot of discussion with the Ericson guys (also a great group of owners, like this group), one of the features of the newer Ericson designs which improves comfort is the flared bow (the 80s models), something which the C&C 35-2 also has. Walking up to this 35-2 a few days ago just reminded me why I was so attracted to it originally. Yes, there are a few things I would do differently, but it's basically ready to sail, as is. _______________________________________________ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. 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If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray<https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__www.paypal.me_stumurray%26d%3DDwMFaQ%26c%3DclK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI%26r%3D9w3G7Cf8YfQnrjmtuNxwDJYr3JMv9f1pAfgAJ9xXYQQ%26m%3Dr19-Ug1nKqOgD02UkVvV5cMq-VD-yOqZzz_ZVsyRJXc%26s%3D-IdVxXChKEJiY98mwqNQX4ck_yn9d0uzvUyZChnxWeE%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0adc4a0cc8684a7ee02108d6ba157ee1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900998812800297&sdata=GZ0mB0VAwOEbVlGvfQEcTdbZxW067xaPIEA6EgwDqjs%3D&reserved=0> -- Shawn Wright shawngwri...@gmail.com<mailto:shawngwri...@gmail.com> _______________________________________________ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. 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Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray<https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.paypal.me%2Fstumurray&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0adc4a0cc8684a7ee02108d6ba157ee1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636900998812840352&sdata=ZcC8pY3uMwWvIYijvYmXPyGJNUhi5Q5r67RrMrap3%2FA%3D&reserved=0> -- Shawn Wright shawngwri...@gmail.com<mailto:shawngwri...@gmail.com> _______________________________________________ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. 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