Stiff to me is the ability to stand up under sail and it depends on its design and construction. Strong will ideally be part of the equation. Our C&C 29-2 was a more tender boat than our 35. A stiff boat isn't necessarily a fast boat; we could sail rings around a C&C30-1 in our 29, but we did it at ten degrees more heel. *Yacht Design According to Perry *or Steve Killing's *Yacht Design Explained* are both very informative reads.
Jim Watts Paradigm Shift C&C 35 Mk III Victoria, BC On Fri, 26 Sept 2025 at 15:29, David Knecht via CnC-List < [email protected]> wrote: > Hi John and John- Looks like another C&C Rendezvous like the old days when > Edd Shillay was around. I will be at Ft Rachel again this year, sometime > in November, so it would be fun to hook up. I have a friend at TYC who is > looking for a Freedom after Crockers wrecked his Freedom dropping it off a > lift. Not sure which one he had (35 I think), but one thing I didn't like > on his was the club footed jib that he had to go forward to put away. That > looked like a PITA in rough conditions. I suspect some Freedom's have a > different rig. I certainly think a self tacking is something to consider > to make handling the boat easier, but I was thinking more like the Hanse > track self-tacker or Sabre Spirit that you can furl. Not sure what the > plus/minus of a jib boom vs. the Hanse track. Also, his Freedom was a > relatively slow boat. I don't know if that was him or the boat. Not sure > how that relates to your dad's Bermuda 1-2 (WOW) experience. > > BUT- can someone please define STIFF for me in this context. I don't even > know if it is the right term for what I am thinking about because I have > never seen it defined. I could Google it, but I would rather hear from > sailors what you think it means. Is it literally how strong the boat is, > or is it more about its ability to handle difficult conditions well. Those > seem to me to be different design challenges. > > David Knecht > Emeritus Rear Commodore/Thames Yacht Club > Emeritus Professor/University of Connecticut > Basketball Capital of the World > > > > > > > On Sep 26, 2025, at 4:44 PM, John Read via CnC-List <[email protected]> > wrote: > > David. Will you haul at Fort Rachel again? The Jenny 44 will as well. > Mccrea and I will.as well. John Read > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2025, 4:08 PM John McCrea via CnC-List < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> My dad is 86 and has 100k on his Freedom 32. Raced singlehanded to >> Bermuda 15 times in a row and did the Atlantic circle in it. My mom has not >> been on the boat in over a decade, but he still sailed it all over Maine >> singlehanded each year (including this one)The 40 is also a great boat. >> They also made the Legacy powerboats, and they are pretty. >> >> >> >> Friends here in Mystic just bought a 2021 Jenny 44. It has power and is >> as stiff as nails. Since you are local, I can connect you if you want. >> >> >> >> John McCrea >> >> Talisman >> >> 1979 36-1 >> >> >> >> *From:* Don Kern via CnC-List <[email protected]> >> *Sent:* Friday, September 26, 2025 3:50 PM >> *To:* David Knecht via CnC-List <[email protected]> >> *Cc:* Don Kern <[email protected]> >> *Subject:* Stus-List Re: Is there a new boat in my future? >> >> >> >> David, >> >> If you are no longer racing, have you considered a Freedom. One of my >> racing crew has a Freedom 38. This summer he and his wife (both late 60s) >> cruised from Bristol, RI to the coast of Maine, all the way to Bar Harbor >> (Acadia). They only dropped one day of sailing by staying in port due >> inclement weather (drizzle & fog). >> >> I have avoided sailing on his boat, because my wife would want to come >> along. That would be a disaster for me since I am still racing my boat. >> I'm in my early 80s, sail as the helmsman and try to avoid >> grinding/tailing. That's for the racing crew, all over 55. I do cruise >> with wife, flying just my only roller furl sail (135%). >> >> Don Kern >> *Fireball*, C&C 35 Mk2 >> Bristol, RI >> >> On 9/26/2025 1:14 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List wrote: >> >> I have had my C&C 34/36 WK for 12 years and I love the boat. I race it >> frequently single or double handed and cruise with my wife for a week or >> two every summer. But at 72 and not getting any stronger, I am starting to >> think about my next/last boat. Perhaps I need to be talked down by more >> experienced sailors because this issue was precipitated by our last >> cruise. I am by nature and experience a dinghy sailor and only came to >> keel boats late in life, so I have limited experience on different keel >> boats aside from mine and Caribbean charters. I don't have much of a sense >> of how different designs and sizes of boats perform in challenging >> conditions. >> >> >> >> Last week, my wife and I cruised from New London to Cape Cod and back. >> On the first day it was blowing 15+ from the east (so upwind route) when we >> left and I had a 110 genoa and a single reef in the main. All was well >> until we left Fishers Island Sound (relatively protected and calm) and >> entered Block Island Sound (essentially the Atlantic-chop and large waves). >> First the main reefing line broke and I was able to stow the main so we >> sailed the rest of the way with just the 110 genoa. It was rough enough >> for my wife to get seasick, but the boat was doing 6+ knots close hauled, >> so no big problem. However, the thought I kept having was that it was >> "only" blowing 18 knots true. If it had been 20-30 knots it would have >> been much worse and much more difficult to control the boat single handed >> and no way to further depower. We ended up motoring part way, but that was >> no fun either. I have never tried furling the 110 partially and it >> certainly is not designed with that in mind. >> >> >> >> Thinking about this experience afterwards I was reminded of a charter we >> did in the Caribbean on a Jeanneau 50DS years ago. I was sailing the boat >> myself in nearly 30 knots of wind with main and genoa under total control, >> healing a bit, and having a great time. The water was not rough, but I was >> confident I could sail that boat in much stronger winds and waves and be >> fine. I had never really understood the concept of a "stiff boat" but I >> presume this is what it means. The Jeanneau was a stiff boat and mine was >> not. >> >> >> >> On the return trip, it was all downwind and I had just the main up, and >> it was supposed to blow 10-12 but by the time we hit Block Island Sound it >> was blowing 20-30 with large following seas. It was a real challenge to >> steer the boat in those conditions and I was running on fumes from hand >> steering for hours by the time we hit Block Island. I didn't think the >> wheel pilot was going to be able to handle it and never tried. I don't >> know if any type of boat/keel/rig makes that situation easier to handle. >> >> >> >> Obviously the 34+ was designed to have 4-6 people on the rail for ballast >> and sailing it single handed is going to have some compromises. Up to 15 >> knots, it is no problem, but as it approaches 20, things get more >> challenging. So I am thinking that I might need to start looking for a >> different boat for the future. Something stiffer (is that the right term?) >> so I don't have to be concerned about going out when it is blowing 20-30 >> (beyond that I just won't go out by choice). But I am unclear on what >> characteristics to look for. Is it mostly sail area/displacement ratio >> that determines this? Is it possible to have good performance in various >> conditions and not be overpowered in 20-30 knots? How much of a factor is >> size or design? Can a boat be "stiff" and reasonably fast in a variety of >> conditions? I still want to race and PHRF should compensate somewhat for >> performance, but in my experience, "slow" boats lose to "fast" boats in >> PHRF racing. Perhaps that is just the price I will have to pay. >> >> Anyway, I would love to hear the thoughts of the group on any aspect of >> this issue. Thanks- Dave >> >> >> >> David Knecht >> >> S/V Aries >> >> 1990 C&C 34+ >> >> New London, CT >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Your contributions help pay the fees associated with this list and help to >> keep it active. Please help by making a small contribution using PayPal at: >> https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/stumurray All contributions are greatly >> appreciated. >> >> >> Your contributions help pay the fees associated with this list and help >> to keep it active. Please help by making a small contribution using PayPal >> at: https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/stumurray All contributions are >> greatly appreciated. > > Your contributions help pay the fees associated with this list and help to > keep it active. Please help by making a small contribution using PayPal > at: https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/stumurray All contributions are > greatly appreciated. > > > Your contributions help pay the fees associated with this list and help to > keep it active. Please help by making a small contribution using PayPal > at: https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/stumurray All contributions are > greatly appreciated.
Your contributions help pay the fees associated with this list and help to keep it active. Please help by making a small contribution using PayPal at: https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/stumurray All contributions are greatly appreciated.
