On Mon, 16 May 2011, Andreas Kolbe wrote: > > It seems to me you are obsessed with the breasts in that image. If someone > argues > against an image with breasts, it is censorship. > > If someone argues against hosting some Wikimedian's technically > semi-competent, > but undistinguished Thomas Kinkade pastiche in Commons, would you also shout > censorship? Probably not, I guess, because the censorship argument requires > that there be breasts in the image.
Censorship does not require there be breasts or "fuck" or anything else. It's just the only arguments I've seen about why this image should not be on the main page are that it contains breasts. If you want to complain that it should not be on the main page because it's a poor pastiche then that's a very different issue that is not censorship related, but not one that I've seen made and so not one I've made any comments about. To be honest though that would seem more like an argument that it should not be featured rather than it should not be on the main page. My view is that if it is featured it should be eligible to be on the main page, if it isn't featured then it shouldn't be on the main page. Whether it should be featured on not I don't hold a strong opinion on, and not a discussion for this thread (imho), other than the fact that the image contains breasts should be entirely irrelevant. If the image contained blood and gore and people were saying that it shouldn't be on the main page because of that, then I would be equally against such censorship, even though I personally think that image would be far less suitable for children than one containing bare breasts. The image does not contain blood or gore and so nobody is saying it shouldn't be on the main page for that reason, hence I'm not making any points about that. There does seem to have been a bit of comment along the lines of "manga cannot have artistic value", but that isn't why they think it should not be on the main page (at least the way I've read the emails containing those comments) and so they aren't proposing to censor it for that reason. The same goes for any reaosn that is proposed for censoring content, e.g. I don't think we should refrain from showing a featured map of Azerbijan just because it might offend the Armenians. > > Again, if I get a garage band to upload a few tracks, does the singer have to > say > "fuck" in the lyrics to have your support? That would work too: "Y'all only > want > to delete this great track in the style of ... from Commons because the singer > says 'fuck'. But that's what singers in this genre of music say all the time, > and > therefore it's educational. Commons is not censored!" Not at all. If a garage band upload a few songs that you propose to be featured, then I would determine my view based on the whole content, quality, description, potential for educational use and any other relevant factors (I don't work in the area of featured sounds, so I don't know what the criteria are). The presence or abscence of one word should be irrelevant to the decision in most cases, the exception being if that word was the basis of the educational use of the work, for example I wouldn't vote to feature a clip of the Sex Pistols on television show where they said "Fuck" if it didn't contain them saying "Fuck" if that was the basis of the educational use of the clip. If the clip though does show them performing on television, then that would potentially be a reason for the educational use (obviously this would not be Free content though, but I couldn't think of a better example of the top of my head). > > So ... following this line of thought, the way to prove educational > usefulness in > Commons seems to be to make sure that there are either breasts or "fuck" in > your > piece of art, or music. Because without that, it's just a so-so painting by an > amateur artist, or a so-so track by an amateur band, and the censorship > argument > won't wash. Not at all. My argument that this should be on the main page is that this is a featured image. If it wasn't a featured image then I wouldn't want it on the main page. As I said above, whether it should be a featured image or not is a different discussion. > > The whole point is that this image has neither superb artistic merit nor > superb > illustrative value. Artistically, the perspective and textures are poor, as > was > pointed out at FPC, and educationally, the fantasy setting is too specific to > be > illustrative of a generic style. Then you are missing the point that I am making. While you have valid arguments for this not being a featured image, while it is a featured image they are irrelevant to it being or not being on the main page. Chris ---- Chris McKenna cmcke...@sucs.org www.sucs.org/~cmckenna The essential things in life are seen not with the eyes, but with the heart Antoine de Saint Exupery _______________________________________________ Commons-l mailing list Commons-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
