I don't have a cultural stance against positional calling, but I do have
the "right/left" equivalent of dyslexic (if you say turn right/left as I'm
driving, I get it wrong about 70% of the time, and I work around it by
navigating with NSEW or a map.) I was able to learn dancing by feel and by
momentum of the dance ('this feels like it will be a right allemande') and
I was often late when I was learning until I had a good "translation"
system in place / until I had developed a sense of dance flow. So I'm
personally pretty fearful of "lefts allemande right"--it will be *workable *for
me as a dancer* because I already learned how things "feel" using roles*.
But I will never attempt calling it (recipe for disaster), and I'm pretty
confident that if I was learning dancing as a newbie and got the sentence
'lefts allemande right' I would have given up and not come back.So for me, the birds are the obvious solution, positional calling feels totally not compatible with my particular handicap. I have no idea how common "left right dyslexia" is, so it could be that the 'right choice' is to override people in my shoes--there may simply not be very many of us. (In fact, I haven't heard anyone else say this yet, which is why I felt compelled to write). On Thu, Feb 9, 2023 at 7:56 AM Gabrielle Taylor via Contra Callers < contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > As a member of the LGBT community, my view (personal, from talking to > others, and from votes in local contra dances in Western Massachusetts) is > it's very good to have a consistent term that isn't inherently gendered. > > After local debate and dance-specific polls, we've been using larks and > robins/ravens here since about 2018, and I think it's been a big > improvement over ladies/gents. Larks and robins are my personal preference, > since it's what everyone here is used to, and I at least don't have enough > bird knowledge to get confused about robins or larks having some inherent > gendering. I don't have any cultural stance against positional calling, but > the confusion of "lefts allemande right" seems a lot worse than learning > new terms. > > Thanks, > Gabrielle > > On Feb 9, 2023, at 13:45, Jim Thaxter via Contra Callers < > contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > Just a thought, but has anyone checked with the lgbtq community about what > terms they would like to have used? > > Another thought, someone mentioned earlier in the thread that the > terminology issue had been discussed thoroughly some time ago and the > decision had been made to go with the birds. I don’t remember seeing or > hearing about a general survey sent out to all the CDSS affiliates or any > other general list of dance groups around the country or world vetting that > decision > > Personally, I’m exploring positional calling. Just my gut feeling, but I > think fewer people would be challenged by right/left directional calls than > by being called bird names. > > Jim Thaxter > Columbia, MO > > On Thu, Feb 9, 2023 at 6:31 AM Amy Cann via Contra Callers < > contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > >> Since no one else has mentioned this, I'll just say that my entire >> personal difficulty with birds comes from fairy tales and ornithology. >> >> When we say "robin" we are mostly thinking about that bird with the >> "red breast", right? Not something kinda reddish-brownish? That's the >> male. In my childhood I read any number of books with >> anthropomorphised birds, and Mister Robin Redbreast was male. In a >> bunch of the stories there was also small, sweet-singing female lark. >> >> Add to that that in the states the robin is a different bird from in >> the UK, and much larger, I've got two good reasons to think of the >> robin as being the "male" role. My brain weighs the imagery and >> memories against that silly little detail of starting with "R" or "L" >> and defaults obstinately to the exact wrong conclusion every time. >> EVERY time. It's somewhat maddening. But "Ravens" was even worse, >> because ravens are black and men in formal clothing dress in black, so >> I guess things are better now?? >> >> Whew. Change is hard. >> >> On 2/9/23, Peghesley via Contra Callers >> <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> > Bree, I’m making the same change as well and am calling without >> reference to >> > role and don’t need bird terms. Louise Siddons’ position is a compelling >> > one. >> > >> > Peg Hesley >> > www.peghesley.com >> > >> > Sent from my iPhone using voice recognition >> > >> >> On Feb 8, 2023, at 7:04 PM, Bree Kalb via Contra Callers >> >> <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> I made the same changes Chrissy did and for the same reason. I think >> it >> >> was 4-5 years ago when I switched from M and W to Gents and Ladies. >> And >> >> it seems to me that almost all the local callers did the same. >> >> >> >> ( Now I’m calling without reference to gender or role. Louise Siddons >> >> booklet “Dance the Whole Dance” from CDSS describes well what many of >> us >> >> are learning to do.) >> >> >> >> If it matters, my dance community is in a progressive/liberal area, so >> >> calling styles here might be different than in other places. >> >> >> >> Bree Kalb >> >> Carrboro, NC >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 8, 2023 at 8:18 PM Jacob or Nancy Bloom via Contra Callers >> >> <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> At the Ralph Page Legacy day last month, Chrissy Fowler did a session >> in >> >>> which she called dances as she called them at different times in her >> >>> career. In it, she talked about how, at one point, she and other >> female >> >>> callers were insisting on the term "women" because they weren't >> ladies, >> >>> and then several years later they were insisting on the term "ladies" >> >>> because that was understood to be the name of a role. >> >>> >> >>> I can't give a year when it happened, but I do believe I remember a >> time >> >>> when at least some callers were making it explicitly clear that the >> terms >> >>> Gents and Ladies referred to roles, and anybody could dance either >> role. >> >>> >> >>> Jacob >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Wed, Feb 8, 2023, 2:29 PM Tony Parkes via Contra Callers >> >>> <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> I believe it’s in Myrtle Wilhite’s Lullaby of the Swing and other >> contra >> >>>> dances, tunes, waltzes, and essays (Madison, WI, 1993). I can’t lay >> my >> >>>> hand on my copy at the moment, but perhaps someone else has one. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Tony Parkes >> >>>> >> >>>> Billerica, Mass. >> >>>> >> >>>> www.hands4.com >> >>>> >> >>>> New book! Square Dance Calling: An Old Art for a New Century >> >>>> >> >>>> (available now) >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> From: Mary Collins <native...@gmail.com> >> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2023 2:11 PM >> >>>> To: Jeff Kaufman <j...@alum.swarthmore.edu> >> >>>> Cc: Tony Parkes <t...@hands4.com>; Joe Harrington >> >>>> <contradancer...@gmail.com>; contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net >> >>>> Subject: Re: [Callers] Re: Gentlespoons/Ladles (from Rompin' >> Stompin') >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Jeff, me too...if you find it, share please. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> mary >> >>>> >> >>>> "And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those >> who >> >>>> couldn't hear the music." - Nietzsche >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> “Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... it's about >> >>>> learning to dance in the rain!” ~ unknown >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> On Wed, Feb 8, 2023 at 9:58 AM Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers >> >>>> <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Aside: does anyone have a copy of the "I am not a lady" essay? I'd >> be >> >>>>> interested to read it. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Jeff >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 8, 2023 at 9:54 AM Tony Parkes via Contra Callers >> >>>>> <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Joe Harrington wrote: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> > When I started dancing in the late 1980s… Callers were taking the >> >>>>>> > revolutionary step of not calling "men" and "women" but rather >> using >> >>>>>> > "ladies" and "gents", to signal that switching roles was ok, >> since >> >>>>>> > nobody referred to themselves as a "lady" or a "gent" in casual >> >>>>>> > conversation. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Where was this, Joe? And are you talking about contra callers >> (rather >> >>>>>> than ECD)? I can only speak about the NYC area in the 1960s and >> early >> >>>>>> ’70s, and New England starting in the late ’60s and continuing to >> the >> >>>>>> present. In both regions, square/contra callers (contras were a >> >>>>>> subcategory of square dance until around 1975) universally used >> >>>>>> “gents/ladies.” (I believe ECD teachers have always used >> “men/women,” >> >>>>>> presumably emulating Playford and Cecil Sharp.) AFAIK, northeastern >> >>>>>> callers pretty consistently used “gents/ladies” until some of them >> >>>>>> started to move away from gender-related terms. Tolman and Page’s >> >>>>>> Country Dance Book (1937) uses “gents/ladies,” as do most of the >> other >> >>>>>> standard American dance books from the 1900s to the 1950s (a few, >> >>>>>> aimed at schoolteachers, use “boys/girls”). >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> I know of no region where callers changed from “men/women” to >> >>>>>> “gents/ladies.” I know that some callers, beginning I think in the >> >>>>>> ’80s, changed from “gents/ladies” to “men/women,” feeling that >> >>>>>> “gentlemen” and “ladies” smacked of classism. (One female caller, >> in >> >>>>>> an essay titled “I am not a lady,” requested that other callers not >> >>>>>> use her contra compositions if they adhered to “gents/ladies.”) As >> an >> >>>>>> amateur (= lover) of dance history, I would like to know about past >> >>>>>> changes of which I was unaware. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Tony Parkes >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Billerica, Mass. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> www.hands4.com >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> New book! Square Dance Calling: An Old Art for a New Century >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> (available now) >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- >> contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net >> >>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >> >>>>>> contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net >> >>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net >> >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >> >>>>> contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net >> >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >> >>>> contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net >> >>> To unsubscribe send an email to >> >>> contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net >> >> To unsubscribe send an email to >> contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net >> To unsubscribe send an email to >> contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net >> > _______________________________________________ > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net > To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net > > > _______________________________________________ > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net > To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net > -- Allison Jonjak allisonjon...@gmail.com allisonjonjak.com
_______________________________________________ Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net
