Hi, Becky,
This is one that without a good visual to know exactly what this means, I'm not
sure I like this. The reason why people are taught to put a hand on the
shoulder blade is that the shoulder blade is a good solid part of the body to
put a flat hand and provide the weight to go around in a satisfying swing. I
can't imagine this "hand above elbow" thing. I *have* seen the hand below
elbow thing, though, but I feel that putting weight on the elbow is more likely
to cause injury than on the shoulder blade, especially if you are pushing
upwards on a bent elbow. I'm guessing that what you are describing is
something different than I am imagining.
As for the boob problem, that is something that I feel can be solved by good
swing technique. My main issue is when you swing, the hips should be side to
side, but the torso is should still be somewhat square so that my arm doesn't
go across the breast. And as a man I make great effort not to brush against
anyone's breast by going around as best as I can, by going all the way around
to the back of the shoulder. And those times when I do brush against the
breast, I apologize profusely, and most people are understanding, as the
apology shows that I'm not there to grope.
I *think* a lot of people can tell the difference between a grope and accident,
but I'm probably wrong about this. I'd like to hear some more thoughts from
other people on this. It would be good to know what to do to help prevent
accidental boob touching.
Perry
On Wednesday, March 13, 2024 at 10:17:30 AM EDT, Becky Liddle via Contra
Callers <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
In the discussion about some men being uncomfortable doing ballroom dance hold
swing with other men, the modified ballroom hold (hand above elbow of partner
instead of on robin’s shoulder) was mentioned.
In this discussion, much has been said about men who don’t want to do ballroom
hold with other men, but what nobody has mentioned yet is the scads of women
(both straight and queer) who have long been uncomfortable dancing ballroom
swing with men (or often just with particular men). I am intrigued by this
modified ballroom swing idea because it might solve many problems at once.
I have two simultaneous (and conflicting) emotional responses to men
uncomfortable swinging with other men:The ungenerous one is: "As a lesbian I
had to get over my discomfort swinging with you in order to participate in the
joy of contra. If I can do it, you can do it." But more importantly (and more
generously): We’d like everyone to be as comfortable at contra dances as is
reasonably feasible. To that end, I am very interested in this idea of the
modified ballroom hold. It might solve MANY different problems. Here are a few
that come to mind:
1. The enforced intimacy problem: this is not just a problem with straight men
being uncomfortable swinging with other men. There is a lot of forced intimacy
in the ballroom hold. Maybe that intimacy is not the best thing to force on
anyone?. Modified ballroom swing would help with the problem of not wanting
enforced closeness/intimacy with others for all kinds of reasons: keeping
distance from the lecherous dancer who uses the ballroom hold as an excuse for
unwanted intimacy; but also simply to provide a bit of space for folks who
simply aren’t comfortable being that close to ANYBODY. I recently struck up a
conversation with a new dancer who was leaving early (because we need to know
why we’re losing potential dancers) and she said “It just feels too intimate.”
She didn’t say too intimate swinging with men or with women. Just “too
intimate” and I got the definite feeling that it was the enforced close hold
(with everyone) that was difficult for her. I wonder if we would have lost her
if we used the modified ballroom swing (hand above elbow instead of on
shoulder).
2. There are other difficulties with the ballroom hold: sometimes there is
simply not enough room: short arms or large girth can make it difficult to
reach the back of the shoulder of the other partner at times, and this leaves
the Lark in the uncomfortable/dangerous position of “where do I put my hand
now?” While trying to avoid the “accidental side boob graze” issue.
3. Speaking of which, is nobody else out there having trouble with this “side
boob graze” problem with the ballroom hold? I’m a lesbian who dances the Lark
role because of knee and hip issues. At least once/evening when moving into or
out of the ballroom hold I accidentally graze the side of my partner’s breast.
If I were straight I wouldn’t worry about it. But as a lesbian my mind always
leaps to “what if she thinks I did that on purpose?” Do straight men not also
have this problem?? Why is nobody talking about this?? If the robin is
female-presenting, the back of the robin’s shoulder is dangerously close to the
side of her breast. Which means (a) it’s easy for a sleaze to cop a feel and
pass it off as an accident, and (b) it’s easy for a lesbian or straight man to
truly accidentally graze and then worry that they’ll be perceived as a sleaze.
The elbow hold would solve both of these problems.
4. The robin clamping down their arm problem: Larks, have you ever danced with
a robin who clamps down their arm on your wrist during the swing? Again, elbow
hold would solve this.
5. The problem of robins dancing backwards when swinging: I have never danced
the modified ballroom hold, but I’d like to know from folks who do: does it
solve the problem of many robins feeling like they need to dance backwards when
swinging? On the occasions when I do dance robin (usually because I’m pairing
with a newbie who is dancing lark) I often find myself skittering backwards in
the swing, instead of both of us walking/dancing forward. I’m not experienced
enough as a robin to fully understand this phenomenon, but I think it has to do
with the closeness and rigidity of some Larks’ hold in the ballroom swing.
Question for folks who have used the elbow hold: does this hold solve this
problem and allow the robin to dance forward instead of backward in the swing?
I am particularly interested in this issue because I am about to move from
Toronto (where the ballroom hold is firmly established) to an island off the
coast of Vancouver (Bowen Island) where, if I want to continue to dance, I will
have to start my own contra dance. This conversation has made me wonder whether
I should start that group with the modified ballroom hold to solve many of
these problems. I’d love to hear from others who have used this swing about the
pros and cons (if any) and any other advice you’d have for someone starting a
dance using this swing hold.
Thanks!!Becky Liddle(Note: my email is changing from beckylid...@bell.net to
becky.lid...@icloud.com )_______________________________________________
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