At the last couple of dances in the last few days, I thought about this email thread and observations.
Short and simple: A "barrel hold" swing: - Seemed to provide a little bit more space than a ballroom hold - One neighbor offered it (by chance) really clearly, as a lark, with his left arm curved into a sort of "offer a hug" type position. As we engaged in the swing hold, he placed his left arm in place, and it guided things in. It worked pretty well for me, at least as an experienced dancer. In dance, -Julian Blechner On Sat, Mar 16, 2024 at 4:18 PM becky.liddle--- via Contra Callers < contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > I can’t answer whether the robin's would always HAVE to go above the > lark’s in the modified ballroom swing, but I would intuitively think that > having that rule/understanding might make it easier for dancers to make the > transition from ballroom to modified ballroom because the robin’s arm is > always on top in standard ballroom swing. Also, the lark’s hand is > typically cupped upwards with the robin’s hand above the lark’s in things > like a balance or even a handhold in a circle move, so having the hand/arm > orientations the same in the swing would also seem more intuitive to me if > I were just learning this swing. > Becky > > On Mar 16, 2024, at 12:25 PM, Katherine Kitching via Contra Callers < > contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > Hi John, thanks for all your comments. I like this swing at > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUiXStkCHGs from 0:05 to 0:15 - for > spacing -- and I'm going to introduce it at our next dance! Though what I > think Becky found interesting about the variation we're working on is that > it retains the "pointy hands", which can be useful. > > The one thing that I was confused about when I read your message: you say > when you tried the swing variation our group has been experimenting with > (visual at > https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ebotfe2jksbr3dqbjyiuf/Modified-Ballroom-Swing-elbow-hold.jpg?rlkey=ekblzvpc2tk2hkbtfrh9u96au&dl=0 > ) > <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ebotfe2jksbr3dqbjyiuf/Modified-Ballroom-Swing-elbow-hold.jpg?rlkey=ekblzvpc2tk2hkbtfrh9u96au&dl=0> > -- you say that you found the grip insufficient, for the arms that are > holding just above the elbow. > > But in my mind, this hold that me and my partner are doing with his left > hand my right hand , is supposed to be the same as the hold you use in > this video of yours - (but in your case, your left hand and her right hand.) > Maybe I didn't execute it properly, but it is what I intended: > > https://youtu.be/yUbi1B2Edk0?si=HL-3jgI95LtGZBQ_&t=198 > Starts at 3:18. > > Thoughts? > > Also, is anyone able to answer my question to Winston - > > Is it a given, due to something in the asymmetric nature of the hold, that > in this video referenced by Allan - > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ0R5iHT-l8 > <https://youtu.be/yUbi1B2Edk0?si=HL-3jgI95LtGZBQ_&t=198> or in the photo I > shared above via Dropbox, that the Robin's arm will *always* go above the > Lark's arm? > > Or could the placement of the arms vary depending on the relative height of > the two dancing partners? > (for example with a 6' tall Lark and a 5' tall Robin, would the Robin's arm > still be above the Lark's? > > Thanks all! > Kat K in Halifax > > John Sweeney via Contra Callers <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> > Thursday, March 14, 2024 7:23 AM > Hi Kat, > Yes, I thought you meant something like you show in your photo. When you > mentioned Jeff's photo I did wonder, as it is what I call a Foreshortened > Hold in my video and brings you closer together rather than further apart. > > I picked up the Foreshortened Hold from the cover of Zesty Contras and > love it. I was surprised when I analysed the 600 dancers at a contra dance > at The Flurry and realised that nobody else was using it! > > We tried your Modified Ballroom Hold Swing and didn't feel that it really > worked. With my right arm underneath there didn't seem to be enough > connection to have a really good swing unless Karen gripped my arm. I felt > that my hand might slide down. With my right arm on top Karen felt that it > was pulling on her shoulder even though I wasn't gripping - it was just > awkward. So, sorry, but I won't be using that one. > > Re all the references to sore arms/hands/wrists/etc. The biggest problem > is that people are told to "give weight". I don't want your weight! People > misunderstand and lean back or sideways. If people control their own weight > then all the connection has to do is counter centrifugal force and that it > not a lot inless you spin really fast. > > I always start a Swing lesson by getting the dancers to Buzz on the spot > BY THEMSELVES. Then when they connect they keep their own balance and > weight. > > I have had major operations on both my shoulders (too much Repetitive > Strain Injury from another style of dance that is taught badly, and then > lots of Aerials: https://youtu.be/CJnL_Y63AnY?si=RqKHSw5MQmhiuIFT - maybe > I shouldn't have started doing those in my fifties!). Anyway, I can't > afford to let people damage my shoulders. With a good partner I can Swing > at high speeds with no problem. Whenever someone leans back or sideways I > just slow the Swing down and lessen my connection so that they have to take > their own weight or fall over. > > Anyway, if you can get everyone to keep their own weight you will find it > is much less strain on your arm/hand/wrist. > > The standard Quebecois Swing has the feet interleaved. They seem to do it > without any problem. It is just a different feel and takes some getting > used to. > > Someone mentioned the challenges with being too close in a Ceilidh Swing ( > http://contrafusion.co.uk/SwingWorkshop.html#Ceilidh ) - you could always > try the Forearm Swing instead ( > http://contrafusion.co.uk/SwingWorkshop.html#Linked ) - same principle, > but further apart so no bodily contact. > > Happy dancing, > John > > John Sweeney, Dancer, England j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802 > 940 574 > http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent > > > _______________________________________________ > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net > To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net > becky.liddle--- via Contra Callers <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> > Wednesday, March 13, 2024 10:20 PM > For me, the enforced intimacy is about the proximity of bodies and lack of > physical air space between them. The huge difference between a swing in > contra vs., say, agreeing to dance a waltz or a swing dance with someone, > is that by agreeing to dance you’re agreeing to swing with EVERY > opposite-role person in the line, not just the person you asked to dance. > That’s a much bigger commitment to physical contact/intimacy than saying > yes to one person. > > As a side note, before we got rid of a lecherous dancer in our group a few > years ago, MANY women in our dance group chose their contra dance line > specifically to avoid having to swing with him. The most important > intervention was, of course, to establish a code of conduct which we used > to remove him from the dance group (when it became clear he would not agree > to change his behaviour). But for women (and others, but it’s always been > women who have said this to me over the years), when they come to a dance > not KNOWING whether there MIGHT be a letch in the line, it is asking quite > a lot to expect them to do a ballroom swing with whoever comes at them. I > am wondering whether the modified ballroom hold might make contra feel > safer, especially for new dancers. > > I’d love to hear what folks who have used both feel about the difference. > > Becky > > > On Mar 13, 2024, at 4:34 PM, Julian Blechner <juliancallsdan...@gmail.com> > <juliancallsdan...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I would love to read elaboration / articulation on why a ballroom hold > feels more "intimate" than other holds? > > _______________________________________________ > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net > To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net > Julian Blechner via Contra Callers <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> > Wednesday, March 13, 2024 5:34 PM > I would love to read elaboration / articulation on why a ballroom hold > feels more "intimate" than other holds? > > Is it a matter of the historical social attachment we have in our minds > with couples dances that use the hold, and romance in our culture? > > Is it a physical proximity? (I find ceilidh holds to be closer, crossed > arms has my hands bearish their belly which has its own intimacy to me, > though sometimes barrel holds can be done with a bit more space - though I > wouldn't say the default) > > Is it something else? > > Maybe if we looked at the why, it'd give insight to what a solution to an > alternate swing hold and/or an adjusted mindset might entail? > > In dance, > Julian Blechner > He/him > Western Mass > > > > _______________________________________________ > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net > To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net > > > _______________________________________________ > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net > To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net > > > _______________________________________________ > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net > To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net >
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