I personally plan to start teaching this modification as an option for a swing in my beginner's lesson. I'm just curious as to whether there's a way one can quickly signal that you'd like to do this modified swing instead of the traditional ballroom... Like, if you want to ricochet through a Hey for Four, you put your hands up in front of you; if you want to twirl/be twirled, you raise your joined hands (and the other person can decide whether to oblige or not). Is there a quick signal that allows one to quickly get into this modified swing without needing a verbal discussion about it?
On Wed, Mar 13, 2024, 10:17 Becky Liddle via Contra Callers < contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > In the discussion about some men being uncomfortable doing ballroom dance > hold swing with other men, the modified ballroom hold (hand above elbow of > partner instead of on robin’s shoulder) was mentioned. > > In this discussion, much has been said about men who don’t want to do > ballroom hold with other men, but what nobody has mentioned yet is the > scads of women (both straight and queer) who have long been uncomfortable > dancing ballroom swing with men (or often just with particular men). *I > am intrigued by this modified ballroom swing idea because it might solve > many problems at once*. > > I have two simultaneous (and conflicting) emotional responses to men > uncomfortable swinging with other men: > The ungenerous one is: "As a lesbian I had to get over my discomfort > swinging with you in order to participate in the joy of contra. If I can do > it, you can do it." But more importantly (and more generously): *We’d > like everyone to be as comfortable at contra dances as is reasonably > feasible*. To that end, I am very interested in this idea of the modified > ballroom hold. It might solve MANY different problems. Here are a few that > come to mind: > > 1. The enforced intimacy problem: this is not just a problem with straight > men being uncomfortable swinging with other men. There is a lot of forced > intimacy in the ballroom hold. Maybe that intimacy is not the best thing to > force on *anyone*?. Modified ballroom swing would help with the problem > of not wanting enforced closeness/intimacy with others for all kinds of > reasons: keeping distance from the lecherous dancer who uses the ballroom > hold as an excuse for unwanted intimacy; but also simply to provide a bit > of space for folks who simply aren’t comfortable being that close to > ANYBODY. I recently struck up a conversation with a new dancer who was > leaving early (because we need to know why we’re losing potential dancers) > and she said “It just feels too intimate.” She didn’t say too intimate > swinging with men or with women. Just “too intimate” and I got the definite > feeling that it was the enforced close hold (with *everyone*) that was > difficult for her. I wonder if we would have lost her if we used the > modified ballroom swing (hand above elbow instead of on shoulder). > > 2. There are other difficulties with the ballroom hold: sometimes there is > simply not enough room: short arms or large girth can make it difficult to > reach the back of the shoulder of the other partner at times, and this > leaves the Lark in the uncomfortable/dangerous position of “where do I put > my hand now?” While trying to avoid the “accidental side boob graze” issue. > > 3. Speaking of which, is nobody else out there having trouble with this > “side boob graze” problem with the ballroom hold? I’m a lesbian who dances > the Lark role because of knee and hip issues. At least once/evening when > moving into or out of the ballroom hold I accidentally graze the side of my > partner’s breast. If I were straight I wouldn’t worry about it. But as a > lesbian my mind always leaps to “what if she thinks I did that on purpose?” > *Do > straight men not also have this problem?? Why is nobody talking about > this??* If the robin is female-presenting, the back of the robin’s > shoulder is dangerously close to the side of her breast. Which means (a) > it’s easy for a sleaze to cop a feel and pass it off as an accident, and > (b) it’s easy for a lesbian or straight man to truly accidentally graze and > then worry that they’ll be *perceived *as a sleaze. The elbow hold would > solve both of these problems. > > 4. The robin clamping down their arm problem: Larks, have you ever danced > with a robin who clamps down their arm on your wrist during the swing? > Again, elbow hold would solve this. > > 5. The problem of robins dancing backwards when swinging: I have never > danced the modified ballroom hold, but I’d like to know from folks who do: > does it solve the problem of many robins feeling like they need to dance > backwards when swinging? On the occasions when I do dance robin (usually > because I’m pairing with a newbie who is dancing lark) I often find myself > skittering backwards in the swing, instead of both of us walking/dancing > forward. I’m not experienced enough as a robin to fully understand this > phenomenon, but I think it has to do with the closeness and rigidity of > some Larks’ hold in the ballroom swing. Question for folks who have used > the elbow hold: does this hold solve this problem and allow the robin to > dance forward instead of backward in the swing? > > I am particularly interested in this issue because I am about to move from > Toronto (where the ballroom hold is firmly established) to an island off > the coast of Vancouver (Bowen Island) where, if I want to continue to > dance, I will have to start my own contra dance. This conversation has made > me wonder whether I should start that group with the modified ballroom hold > to solve many of these problems. *I’d love to hear from others who have > used this swing about the pros and cons *(if any) and any other advice > you’d have for someone starting a dance using this swing hold. > > Thanks!! > Becky Liddle > (Note: my email is changing from beckylid...@bell.net to > becky.lid...@icloud.com ) > _______________________________________________ > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net > To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-le...@lists.sharedweight.net >
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