On Friday, September 6, 2002, at 11:56 AM, Ben Reser wrote:
Sorry it took me a bit to respond to this one... >>> Is anyone here a member of the Mandrake Club? I'm curious because I >>> don't see any votes/requests for PPC packages on the Club's RPM >>> voting >>> interface, and am wondering why that is... > > Yes but I'm a VIP... You can still vote/request packages as a VIP. >>> There is starting to be a bit more of a drive for 8.2/PPC, at least >>> on >>> Club and Forum (if anyone has noticed), and I think it would serve us >>> all well to get involved by either requesting packages, building >>> packages, or just plain old subscribing to the Club and letting >>> everyone >>> know you're a PPC fanatic and want to see a new PPC version. >>> >>> I know the list has been somewhat dead due to a lack of interest >>> (maybe?) in a new version of Mandrake/PPC (and I mean lack of >>> interest >>> on Mandrake's part, not your part), so maybe we can encourage some >>> positive interest in the PPC port again by making ourselves a little >>> more vocal and a little more known. X86 has a very large and >>> dedicated >>> community, and I think we can do the same with PPC, and I think by >>> utilizing Club to our advantage (showing interest by requesting >>> 8.2/PPC-specific packages), will only help to a) increase our >>> community >>> and b) tell MandrakeSoft that we want another PPC version. (Yes, I >>> know, I am a MandrakeSoft employee but I have really very little say >>> in >>> the PPC thing other than for security updates, so I have the same >>> voice >>> as the rest of you). >>> >>> Little pep talk, I guess... I know for myself, I'd love to see a new >>> PPC version (as much as I like OS X, I would still prefer Mandrake on >>> my >>> ibook). > > *shrug* I've beat the drum a lot. But skipping a release version is > just not the way to keep interest in the project. I know Mandrake has > money issues and that they are having trouble justifying PPC. However, > the way I see it by skipping the release you're shooting yourself in > the > foot. The PPC Linux community has seen distros come and go. They've > seen quite a few pretty much abandoned distributions. I think quite a > few people are going to assume that this is what has happened to > Mandarke's PPC support without active development. There are very few > PPC distros that are actively maintained and developed. And the users > are going to go there. They are going to go where they can download a > distro that has KDE3, Gnome2, and all the newest toys without having to > add it in later. I agree with you completely. I dislike the idea of skipping every second release as much as you do. Unfortunately, at this time, MandrakeSoft isn't likely to change this policy (and I have found out that it *is* policy). This means there is going to be a 9.1/PPC. I think there should have been a 9.0/PPC (and there may yet be one unofficially, if people keep up to date with cooker/PPC). I am quite excited about a 9.1/PPC, however. Of course, we can change this policy, just be sheer force of numbers. Money is, of course, a big factor to management's decisions, so the more purchased PPC CDs and Club subscriptions from PPC users, the more likely we can release a PPC distro on the same day as every x86 distro. > More specifically skipping a major release (8->9) probably was a big > mistake. There are major changes in the environments (Gnome2 and KDE3) > that most people are using between these versions. Skipping minor > releases like 9.1 or 8.1 makes a lot of sense. But skipping major > updates just pushes the people off to another distro. Yup. I agree with this also. Unfortunately, at this point, there is nothing that we can do about it. I know Stew is busy getting cooker/PPC up to speed... once that's complete, and if we can make the 8.2 installer work with it properly, I would be more than happy to burn and ship unofficial 9.0/PPC CDs to anyone who asks, provided they pay for shipping and the cost of the medium. They would be built from cooker, so would be the full 3 CDs. I know this isn't the greatest thing as it would be completely unsupported, probably a bit buggy compared to the 9.0/x86 version, but it would be something that people could use with a little bit of hacking/tweaking. > You're asking for a degree of commitment from the community to you to > support you. It's time that Mandrake makes some commitment back. The > x86 people have been more than willing to support you because they have > a sense of commitment that the x86 distro is going to continue to be > produced. But PPC is always sitting on the chopping block. This was more due to a miscommunication than anything. Apparently, and I spoke with Jacques about this, PPC has always been a "every second release" thing... so 9.1/PPC was always in the plans. This means that, most likely, a 9.3/PPC or 10.0/PPC will also be available, provided the community interest is still there. But like all things business, if the money and interest aren't there, the product won't be there either. So yes, I do ask for a degree of commitment from the community because I firmly believe that with it, we can get what we want. If 100 people sign up for Mandrake Club and specifically indicate that they want more PPC stuff, I assure you MandrakeSoft will take them seriously. If that number turns to 200 or 300, I think it realistic to think that MandrakeSoft will release a PPC release every x86 release.. and not a chintzed 2 CD set either, but the full 3 CD deal. It might not be boxed or come with manuals, but it'll be there and it'll be supported. 300 Club members rooting for PPC would be making MandrakeSoft a profit over the cost of creating the PPC distro. Subscriptions are (I believe) for 6mos periods, so one subscription is essentially purchasing a PPC distro. If MandrakeSoft wanted to keep those 300 subscribers on a permanent basis, I'm pretty sure there would release a PPC release every 6mos, just like the x86 product. > As long as Mandrake employees constantly threaten that the future of > PPC > support by Mandrake is in doubt. People are going to look elsewhere. > No one wants to make the commitment of time and energy to work on > something that is going to get dropped. Even if all they are doing is > installing it and using it. Taking the time to learn urpmi and the > various Mandrake peculiarities for a person with only a PPC is likely > to > seem as a waste of time if that knowledge will become worthless soon. I agree. But we have a commitment for 9.1/PPC.. this is coming from the CEO directly. There *will* be a 9.1/PPC. So now is the time to show your interest. I don't expect 100 or more (or less) PPC subscriptions over night. What I would like to see is to reach at least 100 by the time 9.1/PPC is ready to roll. If the proof is in the pudding, so to speak, and the masses come later, so be it. But for those of us here, now, we need to put our money where our mouth is and do something about it. And I don't want this to sound only as a plea for money. I don't mean it to sound that way at all. This is a plea also for participation. The more activity MandrakeSoft sees in the PPC arena (obviously money makes the biggest difference, but if they look at the cooker-ppc archives, they're likely to get depressed), the more they realize there is a crowd to cater to. By this I mean discussing PPC, getting involved in cooker testing (AFAIK, you can use mol to run Linux, so if you prefer to keep a stable 8.2/PPC, you can still test by making an image to run cooker in). Getting involved in Club, requesting and voting for PPC packages, etc. All of this gets attention. >>> Just looking for some feedback as to what the community wants. >>> Showing >>> some interest via Club is a good way to go. Purchasing 8.2/PPC (on >>> sale >>> now for Club members!) and subscribing to the Club are also great >>> ways >>> to make your voice heard for future versions. > > I think what the community wants is a well supported distribution that > has actively development on it. If they have to look elsewhere to find > that they will. I know, and I agree with you. Hopefully in the next 6 months we can prove, via cooker/PPC, that there is active development. Hopefully in the next 6 months we can prove that 9.1/PPC is a reality. Hopefully in the next 6 months we can get some people to demonstrate to MandrakeSoft via financial and participatory means that the PPC community wants Mandrake/PPC. > At any rate this is my 2 cents on the issue. I continue to use my > Titanium (though not as much as I did, I mostly use an x86 desktop > lately). I have donated to Mandrake, tagging it for PPC. I have > bought > the 2 disk PPC set. I have build packages. I have submitted fixes. > But like I say I have to wonder if I'm not wasting my time and energy. You and I have had the same thoughts, trust me. Until I spoke with Jacques, I wasn't sure of the future of PPC either. Now I know we have a new version coming out in 6mos. Now whether we have to wait 12mos after that for the next one, or 6mos, is really up to the community. Some people in MandrakeSoft feel we're losing money on PPC, which may contribute to the perceived negative attitude from MandrakeSoft employees. Some others disagree. If we can make it so that MandrakeSoft doesn't perceive a loss of time and money in the PPC port, then this negativity will go away. Obviously I, Stew, and you, alone, can't do this. Nor can just 10 people do this. The reason why x86 has so much attention from MandrakeSoft is because there is an extremely large crowd to cater to. While we can't possibly hope to have that large of a crowd, we can certainly do better than the 10-15 people who post on cooker-ppc on a semi-regular basis. -- MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/ "lynx - source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import" {FE6F2AFD: 88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7 66F9 2043 D0E5 FE6F 2AFD}
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